Archive: Caller comment board on what went wrong with Brass negotiations

conveidt writes:
It's always the same story in every city. Developers/businessmen promise anything to "get" the deal, then do whatever they want to do and screw the city whenever possible. Corpus Christi is lucky it got out of this disaster.
November 1, 2009
1:35 a.m.


DJsTex3 writes:
Quit spending all our tax payers money, and tear it down and be done with this discussion!
November 1, 2009
2:43 a.m.


oswego18 writes:
Five years? Five. You have got to be kidding me. How can you not laugh at this? Amazing. I've lived in many cities, but this is a first.
November 1, 2009
4:54 a.m.


penname writes:
The city is lucky to have escaped the Brass deal. 
The company is over-extended and could not have pulled off what they promised. 
Their deal hinged on getting government money for the parking garage and on being able to build apartments. 
NOTHING was to be done with the Coliseum except to lease it out.
November 1, 2009
6:04 a.m.


AZ85138 writes:
Larry Elizondo and John Marez look like they have ZERO business savy.
Wow are you kidding me. No wonder these problems have been existing, these council members look like they should be working at J/C PENNY'S. Unbelievable.
November 1, 2009
7:17 a.m.


Riptide writes:
Question:
"What went wrong with the Brass deal?"
Answer:
Incompetent leaders in our city.
November 1, 2009
7:53 a.m.


diane#715068 writes:
If you're tired of waiting for your elected leaders to do what's best for this city, join GROW! CORPUS CHRISTI on Facebook.
We have grown to 2,000 members in 3 days.
It's clear what this community wants: Bring Brass Real estate back to the table and hammer out a deal.
No more waiting around. Let's take control of this issue and make a change!
Just type in GROW! CORPUS CHRISTI on Facebook and you'll find us. This is your chance to have a voice in the debate.
November 1, 2009
7:56 a.m.


Dude writes:
The only people in this city who want to see apartments and a parking garage on our park land are doing so in a last ditch effort to keep their Ice Raysz from failing. 
As for how real Brass is; they are only here for the free prime real estate.
An analogy:
Go to the store and fill your cart with expensive items. The Gleeful Grocer, who is having a less than stellar month follows you through the store imagining how great this checkout experience is going to be for him! Not only are you rich, but you are buying the good stuff he can't seem to move otherwise. When you get to the register, you look at him and say "here is a check for the case of beer you would have sold anyway, now you have 2 choices. Either take this out to my car and assume I'll come back when I get private funding, or the government comes through with my lone star card, or you can issue me a credit card right here and I swear I'll pay it back."
AS LONG AS WE ARE OFFERING OUR MOST PRIME REAL EASTATE FOR FREE, THE CON ARTISTS WILL COME!
MAKE IT A PARK FOREVER!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!
November 1, 2009
8:18 a.m.


Thinking4Myself writes:
I am so glad that the deal fell through, let's just tear it down and plant grass so we have a bigger park area and keep Corpus Christi's Bayfront the pristine beautiful place it deserves to be!. How dare the BRASS folks demand that we taxpayers, not only give up a piece of our precious Bayfront, but also contribute to their bottom line! It's about time, that our elected officials do the right thing!
November 1, 2009
8:37 a.m.


grande3#359803 writes:
One in the Realestate Business and has interst in that area and the the other one has interst with Ice Rays and still incompetent leaders in our city. Tear it down and stop wasting tax payers money
November 1, 2009
8:41 a.m.


lnstst8#314947 writes:
Tear the eysore Coliseum down. You should be ashamed to keep addressing this eyesore as a memorial to our Veterans. It sits there forgotten and ignored just like our Veterans. Have you gone down to the Valley...McAllen in partiular. Now that is a City with a real Council with no "flip-flopping" on growth. Have you seen the Memorial for it's Veterans? Corpus Christi will never mirror a City by the Sea image. This city is so boring with grafitti, gang riddled personality of it's own. Tear the Building down and decide in 20 years what to do with the empty space.
November 1, 2009
8:45 a.m.


southtexasdog writes:
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again?
Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out...
But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's)
yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market...
And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
November 1, 2009
8:54 a.m.


THIMK writes:
Anyone know how much money has been wasted on this issue?
My fathers is a WW2 vet. He's says the Memorial Coliseum is an insult to his dead buddies and it should be torn down. The fact that it has been so badly neglected speaks volumes.
November 1, 2009
8:56 a.m.


Pearl writes:
Garrett had his time to spitefully tear the MC down, and ***Personally spiteful political idiocy has been the BIG problem all along. DO NOT QUOTE, or listen to any of the OLD spiteful players!!! Cut them off completely.
Whether Brass started the power mongering games or not - This is not the school yard play ground. Very LIMITED quotes from Council members in this article. Tells me only the basics of LIMITED RESPECT are available. Glad the DISRESPECTFUL negociations were stopped DEAD, and hope it stays that way.
That said --- It is STUPID to pour good money after bad by spending money to tear a SOUND building down, and then PAY MORE to build something else.
It would cost as much to tear it down as it would to make it USABLE. The PUBLIC use of the ABC is going down hill - FOR factual REASONS. THE people NEED other options period.
Mr. Lange's offer sounds viable, and with WAY LESS (incentive) robbery of the taxpayer budgets - He should be provided the opportunity to INVEST in the MC. Willing, and MORE than ABLE period. IMMEDIATELY TOO!! I'll bet Garrett HATES the idea out of PERSONAL SPITE.
For those who fault Lange, and others for being SUPPOSEDLY rich - Get over yourselves!!! There are NO rich people living in, or around CC because ... Anyone who is ABLE is DISABLED by the FACT that there are NO VIABLE opportunities ALLOWED!!!
LOCAL success (DUH-RICH PEOPLE) is a MUST for ANY city (LIKE IT OR NOT IT IS A FACT), and in order to HAVE success - DUH - There has to be VIABLE opportunities. ESPECIALLY for those who HAVE MONEY!!!!!!!
I hope ALL of those judged as only being out for themselves - Get FILTHY RICH!!! CC NEEDS successful RICH people period!!! The LEADERSHIP of CC needs to stop the ***Personally spiteful politics (BASED ON NOTHING BUT DISRESPECT), and make THAT happen period.
November 1, 2009
8:59 a.m.


haceunano writes:
Looks like all were playing "Hardball". My opinion the City should refurbish the Memorial Coliseum and use it as it was used before for shows etc. Rent it to the Icecubes, but at the same cost as where they are now. We've squandered monies in other areas why not this one?
November 1, 2009
9:13 a.m.


mstevens1#281717 writes:
What went wrong? Mark Scott led some other idiots on the council to vote for what the people who control him to do,,,nothing. This city is a joke! Thank you Mark Scott for keeping Corpus Christi broke!
November 1, 2009
9:26 a.m.


iamme writes:
Ok here is the deal. The city council works for the taxpayers. The mayor works for the taxpayers. Everyone need to stand up to them and tell them to get off their duffs and do their job. If we want them to tear it down and leave the lot vacant then so be it. Call your city council rep and the Mayor and demand that they get to doing the job that we hired them for or we will fire them at the next election.
November 1, 2009
9:48 a.m.


jaze writes:
IT REALLY REPERSENTS THE VETERANS THEY TREAT US JUST LIKE THEY DO THE COLLOSIUM IF YOU THINK I AN LYING SPEND A DAY AT THE VA CLINIC ON OLD BROWNSVILLE. COMMOM SENSE TELL YOU TO CLOSE IT DOWN MOVE IT ON POST IN THE NAVAL HOSPITAL AND BRING IT UP TO MODERN STANDARD BUT NO BECAUSE OF POLITICS AND THEY KEEP IT OPEN TO PUSH PILLS AND AND TRAIN SUBPAR DRS UNTIL THE LEAVE AFTER ABOUT 6 MONTH i HAVE BEEN HERE 2 YEARS AND HAVE HAD 4 DOCTORS AND CURRENT DON'T HAVE ONE.
THAT BUILDING IS A GREAT MOMUMENT TO THE SOLDIERS OLD BROKE DOWN AND WORTHLESS WAITING FOR US TO DECAY AND FADE AWAY SO THE RICH GOOD OLD BOYS WHO REN THE CITY CAN BUILD ANOTHER GOLF COURSE. INSTEAD OF BUILDING A PLACE TO TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THE TOURIST TRADE AND PROVIDE REAL JOBS TO THE POOR HISPANIC,BLACK AND WHITE CITIZENS. A RETIREMENT PARIDISE FOR A BUNCH OF OLD MONEY GOOD OLD BOYS
November 1, 2009
9:54 a.m.


AZ85138 writes:
Regardless, something will happen soon.
I don't understand why Larry E. and John Marez would reject any new development. Any new development would lead to new growth. Especially the Brass Real estate project. This project was #1 or #2 out of the five proposals. They should of taken it!!
November 1, 2009
10:03 a.m.


jaze writes:
Not everyone: you!!! a party of one... need to speak out stop waiting on a group or a band of others. Voice your opinions and stop waiting. The few people with power know that the citizen is not going to do nothing but complain and while you comlpain they go to the golf course after they leave the BANK playing with your money. They got us so fooled that we say please let us pay for our own health care you keep the money even though we no there is no way in hell they will give it back to us. If we get 250 dollars you can bet its because they will get 250000 or more. meanwhile our school roads and self own businesses fail. How sad Bill Gates lost 10 billion this year now he is only worth 750 billion. 
Gas prices go down 10 dollars a barrel they drop the price at the pump a nickle after a few days. Yet when it goes up a dollar a barrel they raise the price at the pump 25 cent a gallon and we buy it....
November 1, 2009
10:09 a.m.


Gatekeeper writes:
Downtown Corpus Christi will never move forward its because of those old buildings and the coliseum many of those owners owe the county between $200,000 to $500,000 in Property Taxes even our Mayor Adame he owes close to $52,000 in property taxes. If the County collected these taxes I guess downtown could be fixed with the money generated from these taxes but no one has the Balls to collect these taxes because it might hurt there feelings? Some City council members set a good example don’t pay your property taxes but if we the citizens don’t pay we get our homes seized or auctioned. As for Brass it net annual sales is about $2.5 million where do you supposed Rodriguez will get the funds from. Tear down the Coliseum and old buildings and collect those property taxes.
November 1, 2009
10:26 a.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
IMO this says it all...and it is further proof that we need to FIRE our make believe City Manager and get some real leadership.
"Some council members said extending Brass’ deadline wouldn’t have made a difference. Councilman Larry Elizondo said the city should be blamed for reaching the deadline without a contract.
“We were eating away at their time because we kept changing the game,” Elizondo said. “We kept debating what we wanted. We were picking it apart instead of saying, ‘What can we do to make it work?’ ”
Until we have real leadership at the helm and by this I don't mean a Mayor and Council, I am talking about a real City Manager not a make believe "we gave you a title" type of fluff and bluff, then we stay in reverse gear.
IMO, the only fault with the Mayor and Council lies in not taking action to remove and replace someone who has no clue and failed to properly oversee proposals and negotiations. This was messed up since before the RFP's were advertised and it is all on Escobar.
November 1, 2009
10:48 a.m.


deweyfinn#243858 writes:
Demolish it, leave the area vancant, and I guarantee a developer will come around with a better proposal. In all that remains holy just tear it down!
November 1, 2009
11:18 a.m.


thirdcoast writes:
Keep public land for the public. If developers want to build near the bayfront, they can buy the land one block inland and build there. The bayfront belongs to the people and is park land.
November 1, 2009
12:16 p.m.


BeverlysMom writes:
If that land is left as public space then maybe that valuable land behind it will quit being dead car lots. I'm not interested in paying some out-of-towners to clog up my Bayfront.
November 1, 2009
12:47 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
" The Building Should Have Never Been Left To Deteriorate To It's Present State .Period .......... "
One dollar will get you ten dollars that it is still insured at an expense to the taxpayer . No one wants to put pressure on the contractor that replaced the roof in the first place .They also had some deed trouble on the south side of the parking lot .That in it's self was the deal breaker for that parcel of land that was leased to the city by the State or County in the first place ,Oh ,Yea , They knew along the land in question was going to be major sticking point . And in the second place there is a Master Plan that had been approved by your Bond Monies of 2008 . No one ever mentions these two major screw - ups and points of view .Why ?
Because as usual they wanted to change the way the publics 2008 Bond Election turned out. Someone seriously needs to re-check and Audit all of the R.F.P.s that are being granted by this Council .
The Green Space Master Plan that was voted on would be a nice addition to the Bay front .
GREEN SPACE VOTED FOR 2008
November 1, 2009
1:09 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
IMO this says it all...and it is further proof that we need to FIRE our make believe City Manager and get some real leadership.
"Some council members said extending Brass’ deadline wouldn’t have made a difference. Councilman Larry Elizondo said the city should be blamed for reaching the deadline without a contract.
“We were eating away at their time because we kept changing the game,” Elizondo said. “We kept debating what we wanted. We were picking it apart instead of saying, ‘What can we do to make it work?’ ”
Until we have real leadership at the helm and by this I don't mean a Mayor and Council, I am talking about a real City Manager not a make believe "we gave you a title" type of fluff and bluff, then we stay in reverse gear.
IMO, the only fault with the Mayor and Council lies in not taking action to remove and replace someone who has no clue and failed to properly oversee proposals and negotiations. This was messed up since before the RFP's were advertised and it is all on Escobar.
What is it with you any way ? First Ms,Leal is not up to your High Morals Standings now you seem to think that Mr, Escobar is not what you want in a City Manger .Most of these deals were already on the table before they got here .
You want proof ask my Buddy " Skippy " He will be more than gladly be willing to give you some 411 on this matter .The one that has no clue is in the Mirror looking Right Back at You . Mr Escobar is A fine A Gentleman you will ever meet and speak too . I , Know I , Have met him and done business with him and found him to be so Very Dedicated to his Job .
You have been going around being a bit pushy lately .Take your time to see all sides of the problem before you go off on a witch hunt .
Happy Belated Holloweanie
November 1, 2009
1:15 p.m.


Esmael091956 writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
" The Building Should Have Never Been Left To Deteriorate To It's Present State .Period .......... "
One dollar will get you ten dollars that it is still insured at an expense to the taxpayer . No one wants to put pressure on the contractor that replaced the roof in the first place .They also had some deed trouble on the south side of the parking lot .That in it's self was the deal breaker for that parcel of land that was leased to the city by the State or County in the first place ,Oh ,Yea , They knew along the land in question was going to be major sticking point . And in the second place there is a Master Plan that had been approved by your Bond Monies of 2008 . No one ever mentions these two major screw - ups and points of view .Why ?
Because as usual they wanted to change the way the publics 2008 Bond Election turned out. Someone seriously needs to re-check and Audit all of the R.F.P.s that are being granted by this Council .
The Green Space Master Plan that was voted on would be a nice addition to the Bay front .
GREEN SPACE VOTED FOR 2008
PUBLIC NUISANCE... .remember this moment... it won't happen again... LOL
I agree with your comment! You aren't ranting - your comment is one of the most sensible you have made in a long time! I am all for the green space and TRUE memorial to those who have fought for our country and died for our freedom! The MEMORIAL COLISEUM is only a symbol of negative in our community and is no longer worthy of having the name "MEMORIAL".
November 1, 2009
1:16 p.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
The reason the Brass deal fell apart is the Community just wants the City council to resolve the Coliseum and public space issues in a way that make us proud of the bay front and not a giveaway to cronies of the Mayor just to give the owners of the Icerays a winfall. The Coliseum became a secondary issue while a massive project overwhelmed the original problem of what to do with the Coliseum. 
I have a little experience in the realm of public venues. For almost 12 years I managed the Richardson Auditorium. People would come to me all the time to book the auditorium to raise money for their charities, They always wanted a deal and they never considered the DMC cost of running the auditorium. Richardson Auditorium. Del Mar College would never provide me the seed money to book an event to earn money for the auditorium. Nor would or did they renovate the facility with todays profit making concessions, including, alcohol and food in mind. Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the auditorium never made a profit? When I exposed the safety issues and the deteriorating building the DMC administration threatened to tear down the auditorium. Fortunately, they realized the value of the auditorium to the DMC. 
The Coliseum has value and can be renovated for the publics benefit for not that much more money than tearing it down. The Coliseum could be divided into smaller spaces that the community wants and needs. Money making concessions should not be an issue. Not another ice rink which is expensive to operate and maintain and would not necessarily benefit the whole community. It could be managed to pay for itself if the seed money is provided to book events for the benefit of the Coliseum. This is the same argument I had with the Del Mar College administration and Board of Regents. It is an argument I lost which is why you will not find very much you want to see at the Richardson Auditorium. It is why the Richardson Auditorium is expensive for outsiders to book and only insiders get deals. 
The Coliseum could be booked in cooperation with the ABC and not in competition as it is done in many cities that have multiple venues.
The swim center is a whole other issue. It is a pro Olympic patriotic issue. It is not a Brass conglomeration. It would be an appropriate use of the Coliseum in that who could be against the USA Olympic teams utilizing the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. Not my first choice, but hey better than an ice rink. Imagine Corpus Christi as a permanent venue of hosting pre-Olympic events. Not just swimming. Maybe beach volleyball, Sailing, decathlon, etc. How could that be bad for Corpus Christi? How could an ice skating rink compare with that? I just don't get it? Where is the patriotism? Where is the Caller-Times patriotism? I realize there are always questions about these proposals? How could this not inspire our community and children? Where is the patriotism to support the USA Olympics to make this thing work?
November 1, 2009
1:27 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to Esmael091956:
PUBLIC NUISANCE... .remember this moment... it won't happen again... LOL
I agree with your comment! You aren't ranting - your comment is one of the most sensible you have made in a long time! I am all for the green space and TRUE memorial to those who have fought for our country and died for our freedom! The MEMORIAL COLISEUM is only a symbol of negative in our community and is no longer worthy of having the name "MEMORIAL".
Thank You ! I have been saying it a for a while the public does not want to know the truth .
Thanks LOL 5157
November 1, 2009
2:01 p.m.


OceanDriveSpeeder writes:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
This so SIMPLE !!
GOD Wants it TORN DOWN !!
Just DO IT !!
What is it about Corpus Christ Texas?
How can one community be so DUMB!
Tear the Damn thing down & Start Over !
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
November 1, 2009
2:07 p.m.


Hecho writes:
There is NOTHING "prime" about this property. This is not downtown Miami Beach. Secongly, we have a pernicious city council member in Mark Scott and his BBF John Bell who bow down to the likes of the greedy Loeb Family. Angel Escobar is the root of the problem. John Marez is a major wimp in this whole scenario. NOTHING will be the legacy of Mark Scott, Nelda Martinez, John Marez and Christ Adler. It is time for Joe Adame to man up.
November 1, 2009
2:38 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
What is it with you any way ? First Ms,Leal is not up to your High Morals Standings now you seem to think that Mr, Escobar is not what you want in a City Manger .Most of these deals were already on the table before they got here .
You want proof ask my Buddy " Skippy " He will be more than gladly be willing to give you some 411 on this matter .The one that has no clue is in the Mirror looking Right Back at You . Mr Escobar is A fine A Gentleman you will ever meet and speak too . I , Know I , Have met him and done business with him and found him to be so Very Dedicated to his Job .
You have been going around being a bit pushy lately .Take your time to see all sides of the problem before you go off on a witch hunt .
Happy Belated Holloweanie
Now, now....I know that you did not miss my post from a few days ago. When I am wrong, I apologize which is something that you have yet to learn. Cut and paste below was my apology to Ms. Leal....try reading it again:
"Before I go on, I must issue an apology. Ms. Leal, as much as I have criticized you on these boards, you and you alone are the one who has maintained a firm position on this issue during the entire debacle. I had watched and recorded the Council meeting and after listening to it again, I may not agree with your decision as it appears that your decision was based more on emotions than sound economics, at least you held your ground and were passionate about doing so".
On to Escobar..... no doubt a fine gentleman. On that point we agree. Does that make him a QUALIFIED City Manager? No, it does not.
Aprende las diferencias, there is a lot of difference between personal and professional qualifications. We hired Escobar at a high rate of pay to be a "professional" City Manager, not a "personal" nice guy.
November 1, 2009
2:43 p.m.


georgelopez writes:
the city council members who voted against the plan should be recalled. that would be an election where people would come out in great numbers. what a bunch of goofballs. they lied out their teeth. those same failed developers around town got to them either with the promise of some kind of financial reward. this should be a case that the state attorney general's office should look into because this was so blatant. and they all campaigned on being pro-growth. pro-b.s. is more like it.
November 1, 2009
5:11 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Now, now....I know that you did not miss my post from a few days ago. When I am wrong, I apologize which is something that you have yet to learn. Cut and paste below was my apology to Ms. Leal....try reading it again:
"Before I go on, I must issue an apology. Ms. Leal, as much as I have criticized you on these boards, you and you alone are the one who has maintained a firm position on this issue during the entire debacle. I had watched and recorded the Council meeting and after listening to it again, I may not agree with your decision as it appears that your decision was based more on emotions than sound economics, at least you held your ground and were passionate about doing so".
On to Escobar..... no doubt a fine gentleman. On that point we agree. Does that make him a QUALIFIED City Manager? No, it does not.
Aprende las diferencias, there is a lot of difference between personal and professional qualifications. We hired Escobar at a high rate of pay to be a "professional" City Manager, not a "personal" nice guy.
I hear what you are saying .Butt , Are you listening to what I am saying . If you were to ask Skip Noe what really transpired in these ventures you would come to the conclusion that there were already problems that were on going for more than a just a few years .Mr , Escobar was just at the wrong place at the wrong time .If we need to lay blame on someone it should be in ourselves for not demanding the obvious the production from the City's Staff who were coming up with these ridiculous proposals .
We spend millions of dollars in a Economic Development Board that has not done much but spend taxpayers monies on a advertising budget .
You want to find the guilty party look no further than the Staff at City Hall .
With out public involvement we do not stand a chance to succeed in our goals .
Help Wanted : 5157
November 1, 2009
5:36 p.m.


dwp007#715457 writes:
Memo to City Council: Nice job. Continue to do NOTHING. Why don't we turn the coliseum into an ancient ruins site? Fred and Barney would be proud. We might as well be living in Bedrock, anyway. What a cast of clowns.
November 1, 2009
5:39 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
I hear what you are saying .Butt , Are you listening to what I am saying . If you were to ask Skip Noe what really transpired in these ventures you would come to the conclusion that there were already problems that were on going for more than a just a few years .Mr , Escobar was just at the wrong place at the wrong time .If we need to lay blame on someone it should be in ourselves for not demanding the obvious the production from the City's Staff who were coming up with these ridiculous proposals .
We spend millions of dollars in a Economic Development Board that has not done much but spend taxpayers monies on a advertising budget .
You want to find the guilty party look no further than the Staff at City Hall .
With out public involvement we do not stand a chance to succeed in our goals .
Help Wanted : 5157
Now you are saying what I have been saying all along and you are acknowledging that Escobar is the problem. I don't need to go back to Noe. Noe is the past and Escobar is the present and the one who is running the zoo. When you write that to find the guilty party I need to look no further than the Staff at City Hall that is exactly what I said.
It is Escobar's fault that the screwups, very costly screwups in terms of time, money and effort, continue to happen because he still has not said the three magic words....YOU ARE FIRED to any of the people that messed this up since the beginning....there was the RFP issue, there was the parks issue, there is the parking issue, there is the issue that this incomplete proposal should have never come back before the City Council with unresolved issues.
How many chances do they get to get it right and they still got it wrong and the man in charge is Angel Escobar. He has had one chance, two chances and a third chance, he took no action so then that should leave the City Council demanding Escobar's resignation.
Sorry Bud, that's the way that it works when you fail to produce results and/or the people that you supervise continue to fail by committing what has turned into very costly and embarrasing errors.
November 1, 2009
5:54 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Now you are saying what I have been saying all along and you are acknowledging that Escobar is the problem. I don't need to go back to Noe. Noe is the past and Escobar is the present and the one who is running the zoo. When you write that to find the guilty party I need to look no further than the Staff at City Hall that is exactly what I said.
It is Escobar's fault that the screwups, very costly screwups in terms of time, money and effort, continue to happen because he still has not said the three magic words....YOU ARE FIRED to any of the people that messed this up since the beginning....there was the RFP issue, there was the parks issue, there is the parking issue, there is the issue that this incomplete proposal should have never come back before the City Council with unresolved issues.
How many chances do they get to get it right and they still got it wrong and the man in charge is Angel Escobar. He has had one chance, two chances and a third chance, he took no action so then that should leave the City Council demanding Escobar's resignation.
Sorry Bud, that's the way that it works when you fail to produce results and/or the people that you supervise continue to fail by committing what has turned into very costly and embarrasing errors.
Not exactly .What I am saying is they should have been let go along with Skippy . His staff is major part of the problem . Mr,Escobar can not just go in firing these people with Tenure .
Think about how many lawsuit we would be facing these are not Dummies they are smart and educated individuals .If you feel that strongly about it then go down to the public comment portion with your views .
I DARE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 1, 2009
6 p.m.


SouthTexas writes:
in response to georgelopez:
the city council members who voted against the plan should be recalled. that would be an election where people would come out in great numbers. what a bunch of goofballs. they lied out their teeth. those same failed developers around town got to them either with the promise of some kind of financial reward. this should be a case that the state attorney general's office should look into because this was so blatant. and they all campaigned on being pro-growth. pro-b.s. is more like it.
First none of what you said happened but just for fun what if the three that voted for Brass were the one's you were describing. Your wild accusation and characterization could just as easily be about the other group. 
Rather than typing on a computer why don't some of those who post these type things just run for office? That would require real effort though so I guess that is not going to happen.
November 1, 2009
6:06 p.m.


G_W_Vet writes:
Lets build a HEB there. We don't have nearly enough.
November 1, 2009
6:27 p.m.


Hecho writes:
One thing everyone agrees on is: FIRING INCOMPETENT STAFF, i.e. ANGEK ESCOBAR. I still say that Mark Scott and his cronies along with the weak and spineless (you know who you are) will go down in Corpus history as the reason that we will have a vacant hole instead of a thriving community project. Please, Joe, show some strength. You can do it!!
November 1, 2009
6:49 p.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
Stupid is a stupid does.
November 1, 2009
7:12 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
Not exactly .What I am saying is they should have been let go along with Skippy . His staff is major part of the problem . Mr,Escobar can not just go in firing these people with Tenure .
Think about how many lawsuit we would be facing these are not Dummies they are smart and educated individuals .If you feel that strongly about it then go down to the public comment portion with your views .
I DARE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fire them then, fire them now???? What's the difference? Tenure? Are you suggesting that they did not have tenure when Noe was fired so that would have been the moment to do it.
If you are correct, the person that would have been charged with that task would have been the Interim City Manager that replaced Noe. I think it was a fellow named Angel Escobar that was named Interim City Manager if memory serves me correctly. Escobar would have been doing the dirty deed then as he would be doing so now. Difference is that perhaps we might have saved some time, money and effort and done some positive things to enhance our tax base. Then again, that is only important to people who actually pay their property taxes.
Continuing to use your criteria one would suppose that they were less smart and less educated at that time so it would have been OK to let them go. Nothing has changed except the name on the City Manager door so if they were incompetent then are they any less incompetent now or less fire-able?
Lawsuits? I see, they invented lawsuits AFTER they fired Noe so the City would not have had to face one then but they would now. How interesting that you have that opinion.
By the way, I find it very disrespectful that you continuously refer to Noe as "Skippy". Somehow you always refer to Escobar as Mr. Escobar....please tell me that you are not really a racist, are you? Is that why you do this?
and LOL, LOL, LOL....."you dare me"? I suppose that next will come a "double dare me"...I stopped doing dares and double dares in about the second grade. For a fleeting moment I thought that we were having a semi intelligent conversation.
November 1, 2009
7:38 p.m.


bluegirlscout writes:
Public land should be kept for the public not used to soak the taxpayers and clog up the bayfront with parking garages and apartments for the very rich. The voters approved that land as a public park. Raze the Hut and give us a nice memorial park.
November 1, 2009
7:38 p.m.


mississippipimp7386#718561 writes:
this town is so beautiful but the truth is bad planning. in Austin Texas the old Mueller airport off airport blvd and I-35 was leveled and they built a whole other city on top of it. they did this in the last six years. now the coliseum is of historical value but we have spent the last ten years thinking what to do with that shoreline property. it's just old.
November 1, 2009
7:50 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
Why can't the city council take some time to examine other waterfront cities who used these sort of development projects to attract TOURISTS to their cities?
Corpus Christi needs some downtown development. However, a swimming center or IceRays arena isn't the answer. How many dollars will that actually bring in? Will it revitalize the downtown/waterfront area?
I truly believe that something needs to be done to attract visitors from the surrounding area into the downtown...as well as tourists to the city from San Antonio, Laredo, Northern Mexico and the Valley. If this is done effectively, the city could attract vacationers from Dallas, Austin or even the Midwest.
My solution? A "Memorial Plaza" area that will host an open air market, hip restaurants (like a Hard Rock, Bubba Gumps Shrimphouse, etc...), boardwalk walking area (with free, sign-up vending), coffeehouses, free outdoor entertainment (via a small pavilion) and some tactful tourist shops.
I personally think that Corpus Christi could EASILY create a "Pier 39" type of area. Such a place would attract quite a few locals from the city and surrounding towns, plus it would attract people (and their money) into the cities across Texas and the region. Not only would it fill the coffers of the downtown vendors (and city through tax revenue), but it would attract further development into the downtown/waterfront area.
The city needs to look at things that have worked elsewhere. While Corpus Christi may not be a major city, it has the potential of becoming a viable short-term vacation alternative.
Of course, we could simply let the waterfront area continue its decline into mediocrity. I don't think that any of the plans presented to (and by) the city were worth pursuing.
=)
November 1, 2009
8:17 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
...of course, the city could ask President Obama for some of that socialism-inspired "stimulus" money.
Then President Obama can blame former-President Bush for all of Corpus Christi's problems.
:-P
November 1, 2009
8:32 p.m.


cuellar_6#715527 writes:
Everything in Houston, DFW, Austin, and San Antonio that gets flushed down their toilets ends up in Corpus Christi.
November 1, 2009
9:05 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to Pearl:
Garrett had his time to spitefully tear the MC down, and ***Personally spiteful political idiocy has been the BIG problem all along. DO NOT QUOTE, or listen to any of the OLD spiteful players!!! Cut them off completely.
Whether Brass started the power mongering games or not - This is not the school yard play ground. Very LIMITED quotes from Council members in this article. Tells me only the basics of LIMITED RESPECT are available. Glad the DISRESPECTFUL negociations were stopped DEAD, and hope it stays that way.
That said --- It is STUPID to pour good money after bad by spending money to tear a SOUND building down, and then PAY MORE to build something else.
It would cost as much to tear it down as it would to make it USABLE. The PUBLIC use of the ABC is going down hill - FOR factual REASONS. THE people NEED other options period.
Mr. Lange's offer sounds viable, and with WAY LESS (incentive) robbery of the taxpayer budgets - He should be provided the opportunity to INVEST in the MC. Willing, and MORE than ABLE period. IMMEDIATELY TOO!! I'll bet Garrett HATES the idea out of PERSONAL SPITE.
For those who fault Lange, and others for being SUPPOSEDLY rich - Get over yourselves!!! There are NO rich people living in, or around CC because ... Anyone who is ABLE is DISABLED by the FACT that there are NO VIABLE opportunities ALLOWED!!!
LOCAL success (DUH-RICH PEOPLE) is a MUST for ANY city (LIKE IT OR NOT IT IS A FACT), and in order to HAVE success - DUH - There has to be VIABLE opportunities. ESPECIALLY for those who HAVE MONEY!!!!!!!
I hope ALL of those judged as only being out for themselves - Get FILTHY RICH!!! CC NEEDS successful RICH people period!!! The LEADERSHIP of CC needs to stop the ***Personally spiteful politics (BASED ON NOTHING BUT DISRESPECT), and make THAT happen period.
You make a lot of good points, but CC does not lack rich people -- they just don't spend their money here.
Tim Lang does and he should be applauded for it. But there are people on Ocean Drive worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and they just sit there in their little coccoons counting their money.
If Lang or anyone else wants to put their butt on the line for this God forsaken city, more power to 'em.
We should support them all the way!
November 1, 2009
9:16 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Why can't the city council take some time to examine other waterfront cities who used these sort of development projects to attract TOURISTS to their cities?
Corpus Christi needs some downtown development. However, a swimming center or IceRays arena isn't the answer. How many dollars will that actually bring in? Will it revitalize the downtown/waterfront area?
I truly believe that something needs to be done to attract visitors from the surrounding area into the downtown...as well as tourists to the city from San Antonio, Laredo, Northern Mexico and the Valley. If this is done effectively, the city could attract vacationers from Dallas, Austin or even the Midwest.
My solution? A "Memorial Plaza" area that will host an open air market, hip restaurants (like a Hard Rock, Bubba Gumps Shrimphouse, etc...), boardwalk walking area (with free, sign-up vending), coffeehouses, free outdoor entertainment (via a small pavilion) and some tactful tourist shops.
I personally think that Corpus Christi could EASILY create a "Pier 39" type of area. Such a place would attract quite a few locals from the city and surrounding towns, plus it would attract people (and their money) into the cities across Texas and the region. Not only would it fill the coffers of the downtown vendors (and city through tax revenue), but it would attract further development into the downtown/waterfront area.
The city needs to look at things that have worked elsewhere. While Corpus Christi may not be a major city, it has the potential of becoming a viable short-term vacation alternative.
Of course, we could simply let the waterfront area continue its decline into mediocrity. I don't think that any of the plans presented to (and by) the city were worth pursuing.
=)
This is the best idea I've ever heard about what to do with the bayfront -- and it's not rocket science -- just look at what EVERY WATERFRONT CITY in the country has done and copy that.
How hard can this be? Go find those developers and give them the damned land if they'll pony up.
The big problem is that CC has earned such a terrible reputation that much of corporate America won't talk to us.
Just look at how the city (that means you Garrett) treated Bob Rowling -- here is a hometown guy who tried to relocate Omni hotels corporate here when he bought the company. That ended in disaster, but he cared so much about this place that he gave it a shot. When he proposed a family-themed entertainment area where the MC is now, HE WAS LAUGHED AT.
And he's a freaking billionaire! We need to go hat in hand to guys like him, beg their forgiveness, and pledge our unyielding support if they'll come here.



November 1, 2009
9:21 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to bluegirlscout:
Public land should be kept for the public not used to soak the taxpayers and clog up the bayfront with parking garages and apartments for the very rich. The voters approved that land as a public park. Raze the Hut and give us a nice memorial park.
If people pay sales, property and every kind of tax for the use of 'public' land, where does the tax money go genius?
November 1, 2009
9:25 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
The reason the Brass deal fell apart is the Community just wants the City council to resolve the Coliseum and public space issues in a way that make us proud of the bay front and not a giveaway to cronies of the Mayor just to give the owners of the Icerays a winfall. The Coliseum became a secondary issue while a massive project overwhelmed the original problem of what to do with the Coliseum. 
I have a little experience in the realm of public venues. For almost 12 years I managed the Richardson Auditorium. People would come to me all the time to book the auditorium to raise money for their charities, They always wanted a deal and they never considered the DMC cost of running the auditorium. Richardson Auditorium. Del Mar College would never provide me the seed money to book an event to earn money for the auditorium. Nor would or did they renovate the facility with todays profit making concessions, including, alcohol and food in mind. Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the auditorium never made a profit? When I exposed the safety issues and the deteriorating building the DMC administration threatened to tear down the auditorium. Fortunately, they realized the value of the auditorium to the DMC. 
The Coliseum has value and can be renovated for the publics benefit for not that much more money than tearing it down. The Coliseum could be divided into smaller spaces that the community wants and needs. Money making concessions should not be an issue. Not another ice rink which is expensive to operate and maintain and would not necessarily benefit the whole community. It could be managed to pay for itself if the seed money is provided to book events for the benefit of the Coliseum. This is the same argument I had with the Del Mar College administration and Board of Regents. It is an argument I lost which is why you will not find very much you want to see at the Richardson Auditorium. It is why the Richardson Auditorium is expensive for outsiders to book and only insiders get deals. 
The Coliseum could be booked in cooperation with the ABC and not in competition as it is done in many cities that have multiple venues.
The swim center is a whole other issue. It is a pro Olympic patriotic issue. It is not a Brass conglomeration. It would be an appropriate use of the Coliseum in that who could be against the USA Olympic teams utilizing the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. Not my first choice, but hey better than an ice rink. Imagine Corpus Christi as a permanent venue of hosting pre-Olympic events. Not just swimming. Maybe beach volleyball, Sailing, decathlon, etc. How could that be bad for Corpus Christi? How could an ice skating rink compare with that? I just don't get it? Where is the patriotism? Where is the Caller-Times patriotism? I realize there are always questions about these proposals? How could this not inspire our community and children? Where is the patriotism to support the USA Olympics to make this thing work?
Who do you work for? A poor dude who lives in a box?
Oh that's right -- you're one of those who thinks he DESERVES a job because you were born and breathe air.
November 1, 2009
9:30 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to dwp007#715457:
Memo to City Council: Nice job. Continue to do NOTHING. Why don't we turn the coliseum into an ancient ruins site? Fred and Barney would be proud. We might as well be living in Bedrock, anyway. What a cast of clowns.
HA!!!!!! That's hilarious! And a good point too.
Most of this town looks like Beirut anyway -- the coliseum certainly fits in.
November 1, 2009
9:37 p.m.


Esmael091956 writes:
I personally think a SUPER TARGET would be great there.... I mean, sheesh.... it's profitable.... would be a pseudo-grocery/retail store --- it would survive... LOL
Eventually, I will get that SUPER TARGET I am longing for.... McAllen has 3 of them.... it's insane how many businesses DO NOT come here....
November 1, 2009
9:58 p.m.


beachguy1982#712635 writes:
I am not from Corpus Christi, and this city absolutely embarrasses me. The city council is incompetent, as is the city that embraces their position over the mayor. Nothing ever gets done, and the city continues to be the least educated, poorest, and biggest enemy to its own well being. Companies wont come here because those running the show are too ignorant to understand how economy works. You cannot make steep demands as a city that has nothing to offer those seeking new business ventures.
I would love to see what should be "prime real estate" actually become what it could be worth. However until this city is smart enough to demand a new city charter mimicking the power structure of more successful governments (like Atlanta, San Antonio, Nashville, and Scottsdale) they will be doomed to power hungry politicians who are ever so clueless as to how to do what is truly beneficial for the patrons that inhabit this city.
November 1, 2009
10:13 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Fire them then, fire them now???? What's the difference? Tenure? Are you suggesting that they did not have tenure when Noe was fired so that would have been the moment to do it.
If you are correct, the person that would have been charged with that task would have been the Interim City Manager that replaced Noe. I think it was a fellow named Angel Escobar that was named Interim City Manager if memory serves me correctly. Escobar would have been doing the dirty deed then as he would be doing so now. Difference is that perhaps we might have saved some time, money and effort and done some positive things to enhance our tax base. Then again, that is only important to people who actually pay their property taxes.
Continuing to use your criteria one would suppose that they were less smart and less educated at that time so it would have been OK to let them go. Nothing has changed except the name on the City Manager door so if they were incompetent then are they any less incompetent now or less fire-able?
Lawsuits? I see, they invented lawsuits AFTER they fired Noe so the City would not have had to face one then but they would now. How interesting that you have that opinion.
By the way, I find it very disrespectful that you continuously refer to Noe as "Skippy". Somehow you always refer to Escobar as Mr. Escobar....please tell me that you are not really a racist, are you? Is that why you do this?
and LOL, LOL, LOL....."you dare me"? I suppose that next will come a "double dare me"...I stopped doing dares and double dares in about the second grade. For a fleeting moment I thought that we were having a semi intelligent conversation.
I had various dealings with Mr,Skip Noe , He unlike Mr , Escobar had a great sense of humor unknown to the public .So it is more of a joke between the both of us .Skip is a very wise man he also knew that the firing of certain individuals would hurt the city's reputation on the national level . He also left like our former police chief Bryan Smith with dignity to insure that the citizens of Corpus Christi would not suffer any more legal challenges than need be .These are Men of Honor .They with stood so much unwanted publicity for the sake of the city .
Now here is something you might not like hearing .Why is it that you want to dissect everybody else and see no wrong in your own posts . Well low and behold I did a little research on your past posts .Now let me see I did not FIND 1 post that was not aimed at a Hispanic in a positive way . I take some serious criticism for being so negative about things I post and sometimes I catch myself of being to hard on some people . Butt , I do research before I post something .What is your Excuse ? 
So let it be said , I did research on you found you to be a bit of a snob when posting on these subjects . We can all have views that we all do not agree on that my friend is the way of the world . Self control comes to mind .
This city does not want to face the truth that it is controlled by a select few of Good Ole Boy's .Join the club of the legal injustice that face our fair city .
Sorry , I call them as I see them .
Low and Fast ...................
November 1, 2009
11:24 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
Most of these proposals won't do much for the waterfront in terms of business.
A swim center? How will this be anything better than another Jehovah's Witness convention? It' won't bring much money or people in (swimmers and a few fans for a few meets). Plus, is there a contract that says that the Olympic Swimming team HAS be based there? Most of the swimmers are from the east or west coasts and practice at their universities. Do we really think that the cost of development (particularly, loss of the land) would be justified by the small income that it would generate?
Look, we don't need another spectator venue. The American Bank Center can hardly justify its existence. It keeps losing money.
We need something from this development that will attract local citizens who don't already come to the waterfront. We need something that will attract people from surrounding communities, or places like San Antonio, Laredo and Austin to choose Corpus Christi as a weekend getaway. A "swim center" won't do this.
A "Memorial Plaza" can work (in the spirit of "Pier 39")! You can destroy that ugly building and set up a plaza that will attract businesses and tourists to the downtown waterfront. This has been proven to work in areas that weren't known for their tourism...and it worked. Monterey, CA; Myrtle Beach, SC; Virginia Beach, VA; and other towns similar in size to Corpus have viable and attractive "Pier 39" type of waterfront attractions that have revitalized their downtowns and generated lots of tax income.
There are plenty of trendy "anchor" restaurants that would probably want to locate here (like Bubba Gump's Shrimp, Rainforest Cafe or other nice coffee shops and trendy restaurants). When it is combined with free "sign up" sidewalk or pavilion entertainment, an open-air seller's market (including fresh seafood and farm items), a walking area, and live music -- the Corpus Christi waterfront can become attractive to outsiders. It will draw people (and their money) to the area -- which should be the goal of the city anyway.
Someone in the City Council should google Pier 39 in order to get some ideas. They could also google similar-sized cities from around the US and see what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns.
*sigh
Instead, we have people on the council who actually WANT to keep that decrepit mockery of an eyesoar in use. It was ugly when it was built...and it has only gotten uglier over time. It also wastes a lot of space on what should be prime acreage along the downtown Corpus Christi waterfront.
City Council, ask yourself: What kind of people do you want to attract to the downtown? What kind of income are you trying to create? Are these hasty proposals the best way to accomplish this? Have you considered alternatives?
November 1, 2009
11:47 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
How many people actually show up to an IceRays' game...how much city income is generated...and is it justified enough to renovate that ugly building?
Wow. Is the City Council basing EVERY bid on a requirement of keeping that unbelievably ugly and useless building that is stretched perpendicularly across the property, thereby dividing it?
Step 1: Tear down the building. It isn't worth saving...and represents poor architecture mingled with bad decisions.
Step 2: Decide just WHAT it is that you want to accomplish with a development project. Do you want visitors only from Corpus Christi? Do you want visitors from the surrounding area? Do you want visitors from San Antonio, Laredo and Austin? All of the above? Are you trying to generate attractions that can have a domino effect on other downtown businesses? Are you trying to generate tax revenue while beautifying and revitalizing the downtown waterfront?
Step 3: NOW that you have a goal, research other cities...and what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns (google Pier 39, please). After months of research, discuss these possibilities with one another.
Step 4: Come up with plans for the entire campus along the downtown waterfront by marketing this business opportunity to major developers of similar projects. Remember: If this is going to be developed in steps, build the ANCHOR attractions first.
Step 5: Once all proposals have been received, discuss them in a public setting. Get input from the people of Corpus Christi -- since you should be accountable to them anyway (rather than doing these things behind closed doors...or by limiting the alternatives).
Step 6: Narrow it down to three choices. Weigh the costs and benefits (and long term benefits) accordingly...and use wisdom with the choice.
Step 7: FINALLY, award the development!
*It seems that, right now, the City Council is still stuck on trying to save another useless building (just like the old Courthouse) and then far too hasty with development projects that are centered around this one flawed premise. Too bad, too. Corpus Christi SHOULD be bustling with tourists who spend lots of money while having a great time along the bay.
November 2, 2009
12:04 a.m.


JavelinaWildcat writes:
I like Dr Jack Shepherd's thinking from all of his above posts. You do recall Doc, we tried real hard to get Landry's to something similar to your above Memorial Plaza ide? But it got shot down by some of the very same players in front and behind the scenes that killed this Brass idea? "Don't let them steel your bayfront" was their rally cry. One of them even went so far to purpose a counter development accross the colisiuem site, but it vanished from the air once Landry's was told to take a hike despite the voters in the end voting for lease terms that would be favorable for the development.
I'm convinced Corpus is doomed to multiple failures to come unless this indeed was the straw that broke the camel's back and finally someone on city council will stand up to the behind the scenes people who are controlling other council members and city staff. When that happens, perhaps we will know the worm is maybe turning. Then again it might snow again in Corpus before that happens which meams get ready for the long haul.
November 2, 2009
7:02 a.m.


PayOffCreditCards writes:
Leaders are better informed and see what we don't. Ordinary people see to the horizon. Are you up with everything your boss is faced with. Leaders make decisions from their elevated point of view. This deal must have stunk behind closed doors. "Next." Las Brisas.
November 2, 2009
9:32 a.m.


DrZeno writes:
in response to southtexasdog:
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again?
Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out...
But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's)
yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market...
And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
Dog:
You are spot on. Building apts and a garage in that beautiful setting is not a solution to the problem.
Let's take a look at Seattle and what they have done. They have enhanced their beautiful setting with commerce that attracts people to the area.
We could do the same. But the hut must be razed and Brass sent packing.
November 2, 2009
9:32 a.m.


beachguy1982#712635 writes:
in response to Dude:
The only people in this city who want to see apartments and a parking garage on our park land are doing so in a last ditch effort to keep their Ice Raysz from failing. 
As for how real Brass is; they are only here for the free prime real estate.
An analogy:
Go to the store and fill your cart with expensive items. The Gleeful Grocer, who is having a less than stellar month follows you through the store imagining how great this checkout experience is going to be for him! Not only are you rich, but you are buying the good stuff he can't seem to move otherwise. When you get to the register, you look at him and say "here is a check for the case of beer you would have sold anyway, now you have 2 choices. Either take this out to my car and assume I'll come back when I get private funding, or the government comes through with my lone star card, or you can issue me a credit card right here and I swear I'll pay it back."
AS LONG AS WE ARE OFFERING OUR MOST PRIME REAL EASTATE FOR FREE, THE CON ARTISTS WILL COME!
MAKE IT A PARK FOREVER!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!
It is this sad and sordid mentality that prohibits growth in this city. I truly believe this is how the city council views the world.
November 2, 2009
9:48 a.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to agitator:
Who do you work for? A poor dude who lives in a box?
Oh that's right -- you're one of those who thinks he DESERVES a job because you were born and breathe air.
I don't know who you are because you are one of those cowards who hides your identity. 
I know who I am. I think I deserve a job because I work hard, I'm intelligent, and give a days work for a half days pay. I leave any place I work a better place then what it was. You go look at Richardson Auditorium now. When I got there it was a rundown disaster and now as lousy as an upgrade as it got I can only hope it is better then when I started there. 
I admire smart intelligent people who get ahead on their own ideas. Not guys like Rowling who inherited the money then buy up all the property in downtown, tearing down viable buildings that could have been new business and then sitting on the empty property so that no one else can earn a living unless they are willing to pay Rowling his tithe for the privilege. Rowling who owns the only major hotel in town and runs it so poorly Convention visitors using the ABC have nothing but complaints about it. 
I am one of those people who has paid a lot of taxes and I believe that we pay taxes for the common good. We fund public police and fire departments. We don't bid them out to a lowest bid speculator who inherited money from his family and let him operate them at his whim. We build roads so that you don't have stop at every corner and pay a toll to private owners. 
Just the same we should,'t give away public land to every idiot venture in the name of growth. Brass would have given us a whole batch more of low level poorly paid jobs that would have just sucked business away from the current downtown business's and the already suffering movie theater complexes. Of course that is assuming they would have ever built anything. Why not let Brass block the one major asset this city has, the great views of the water so that just a few can get a nice view so that Brass can make money and take it back to San Antonio. What kind of idiots think this was a good idea? If you want to bring in more people and tourism you have to use your brain and come up with stuff that accentuates what we have and does not compete with business people who have already invested their lives in local business's. That is why as long as small minded people with no vision like you buy into the growth myth at any cost Corpus Christi will remain a provincial mercury and lead laced watering hole.
November 2, 2009
10:20 a.m.


Catwomen writes:
IF u see those people that voted down to brass spit on them! Naw just kidding but seriously guys this is SAD SAD SAD. U guys really need to not run for this positition anymore as for the majoirty of time u have been in office i believe nothing has been done. Give me one good benifit to the city u have created. . . Please really do!
November 2, 2009
10:25 a.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Most of these proposals won't do much for the waterfront in terms of business.
A swim center? How will this be anything better than another Jehovah's Witness convention? It' won't bring much money or people in (swimmers and a few fans for a few meets). Plus, is there a contract that says that the Olympic Swimming team HAS be based there? Most of the swimmers are from the east or west coasts and practice at their universities. Do we really think that the cost of development (particularly, loss of the land) would be justified by the small income that it would generate?
Look, we don't need another spectator venue. The American Bank Center can hardly justify its existence. It keeps losing money.
We need something from this development that will attract local citizens who don't already come to the waterfront. We need something that will attract people from surrounding communities, or places like San Antonio, Laredo and Austin to choose Corpus Christi as a weekend getaway. A "swim center" won't do this.
A "Memorial Plaza" can work (in the spirit of "Pier 39")! You can destroy that ugly building and set up a plaza that will attract businesses and tourists to the downtown waterfront. This has been proven to work in areas that weren't known for their tourism...and it worked. Monterey, CA; Myrtle Beach, SC; Virginia Beach, VA; and other towns similar in size to Corpus have viable and attractive "Pier 39" type of waterfront attractions that have revitalized their downtowns and generated lots of tax income.
There are plenty of trendy "anchor" restaurants that would probably want to locate here (like Bubba Gump's Shrimp, Rainforest Cafe or other nice coffee shops and trendy restaurants). When it is combined with free "sign up" sidewalk or pavilion entertainment, an open-air seller's market (including fresh seafood and farm items), a walking area, and live music -- the Corpus Christi waterfront can become attractive to outsiders. It will draw people (and their money) to the area -- which should be the goal of the city anyway.
Someone in the City Council should google Pier 39 in order to get some ideas. They could also google similar-sized cities from around the US and see what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns.
*sigh
Instead, we have people on the council who actually WANT to keep that decrepit mockery of an eyesoar in use. It was ugly when it was built...and it has only gotten uglier over time. It also wastes a lot of space on what should be prime acreage along the downtown Corpus Christi waterfront.
City Council, ask yourself: What kind of people do you want to attract to the downtown? What kind of income are you trying to create? Are these hasty proposals the best way to accomplish this? Have you considered alternatives?
There are experts and those of us who think that the Memorial Coliseum is great architecture. I certainly agree with those who think that it is extremely well built. You only have to look at the hurricanes it has survived. I would also propose here that there are those people who might come to Corpus Christi to see this great architecture should the city promote the facility, instead of degrade it? Dido on the old county court house. Both of these buildings could be renovated and restored or modified for the publics use and in doing that we would be bettering this community and that will have repercussions on those visiting this community. 
Truth about all the trendy places to visit is that they are all are the same everywhere you go so why would anyone want to make a special visit to Corpus Christi to see what they can see in all those other places you have mentioned?
I have visited a lot of cities. I grew up in New York City. I've lived on the West Coast. I just came back from a few weeks in Alaska. I didn't go to those places to see and visit chain restaurants. 
I saw great new and old architecture, museums, exhibits, scenery, art, crafts and local restaurants with personality all their own.
When we moved to Corpus Christi twenty years ago, we moved here because of the open beaches, the scenery, and what had been left of the old architecture. Turned out the schools were in a lot worse shape then we had thought both physically and educationally. 
You want to make this town better, you have to do something about the CCISD (don't have the room here to even begin that narrative). You got to stop this growth at any cost attitude. Survey the existing old architecture. Highlight it, restore it. Identify and support the arts and crafts. Keep the beaches clean. Think green. Stop the Las Brisas power plant and yes curb the refineries and force them to operate cleaner.
All you have to do is visit these cities all across the country to see the right things to do.
Yes, we have to get over this fear of investing taxpayer funds to fix up old buildings and improve our city. It will come back with dividends.
I find it interesting that everyone leaves out Olympic in the swim center proposal. I agree with you that it needs to be finalized. Should the Olympics put their seal of approval on the project, why wouldn't that be a feather in the cap of Corpus Christi? Its not the quantity, it's the quality. Just one step at a time.
November 2, 2009
11:19 a.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
There are experts and those of us who think that the Memorial Coliseum is great architecture. I certainly agree with those who think that it is extremely well built. You only have to look at the hurricanes it has survived. I would also propose here that there are those people who might come to Corpus Christi to see this great architecture should the city promote the facility, instead of degrade it? Dido on the old county court house. Both of these buildings could be renovated and restored or modified for the publics use and in doing that we would be bettering this community and that will have repercussions on those visiting this community. 
Truth about all the trendy places to visit is that they are all are the same everywhere you go so why would anyone want to make a special visit to Corpus Christi to see what they can see in all those other places you have mentioned?
I have visited a lot of cities. I grew up in New York City. I've lived on the West Coast. I just came back from a few weeks in Alaska. I didn't go to those places to see and visit chain restaurants. 
I saw great new and old architecture, museums, exhibits, scenery, art, crafts and local restaurants with personality all their own.
When we moved to Corpus Christi twenty years ago, we moved here because of the open beaches, the scenery, and what had been left of the old architecture. Turned out the schools were in a lot worse shape then we had thought both physically and educationally. 
You want to make this town better, you have to do something about the CCISD (don't have the room here to even begin that narrative). You got to stop this growth at any cost attitude. Survey the existing old architecture. Highlight it, restore it. Identify and support the arts and crafts. Keep the beaches clean. Think green. Stop the Las Brisas power plant and yes curb the refineries and force them to operate cleaner.
All you have to do is visit these cities all across the country to see the right things to do.
Yes, we have to get over this fear of investing taxpayer funds to fix up old buildings and improve our city. It will come back with dividends.
I find it interesting that everyone leaves out Olympic in the swim center proposal. I agree with you that it needs to be finalized. Should the Olympics put their seal of approval on the project, why wouldn't that be a feather in the cap of Corpus Christi? Its not the quantity, it's the quality. Just one step at a time.
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
November 2, 2009
2:50 p.m.


bluegirlscout writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
Exactly! I'll say it again. People come to Corpus Christi because of the beaches. Our bayfront is second to none and should be our crown jewel. It should not be parking garages and apartments or swimming pools. Those developments have their merits but could be done anywhere in downtown or on the south side. If public money is to be spent, it should be on projects that benefit the whole public not just developers and those wealthy enough to afford high-end apartments on OUR beach. Raze the Hut, make it a beautiful greenspace with pathways and memorial statues, displays about area wildlife and history. Put the shops and restaurants across the street. Watch the revitalization begin! AND it won't leave taxpayers holding the bag for short-sighted business ventures that don't pan out.
November 2, 2009
3:24 p.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
I bow to your expertise with respect to the Olympic Training Facility. I have not done the research although I find the idea appealing and uplifting. Assuming you are correct I return to my original suggestion. 
I am disappointed that you do not find the architecture appealing but hey the pyramids were stripped of their exterior by scavengers, the sphinx had its nose shot off and in my home city of Brooklyn New York brownstones were abandoned and vandalized as old and outdated, to the point where many were demolished. Loft living came about because empty warehouses some with extraordinary architecture were thought to be ugly and useless for business purposes and many manufacturers and small business's moved out of downtown Manhattan leaving artists the vacant spaces at very inexpensive prices. Today a brownstone I paid thirty thousand for in the 1980's is selling for over a million dollars even in this real estate market and those loft spaces that landlords couldn't give away are also in the millions of dollars. 
What is wrong with downtown Corpus Christi is that speculators, many of them local bought property downtown cheap and now want winfall profits. People like Rowling tore down buildings that pioneers could have rehabilitated and he left vacant lots. 
The best thing the city can do is turn the old county courthouse into low income artist housing. We need to build and create an environment to which creative people, artists, crafts people, etc will be attracted and can afford to move. The city needs to take the first steps to help supply the spaces for displaying art and performance etc. 
I would still suggest that we clean up the Coliseum so that it's appearance is restored. Lock it up tight and securely to prevent further vandalism. I would like the community to think of all the ways they could reuse the building for public events, maybe an exhibition hall, small performance spaces, arts and crafts, native culture, possibly a military museum etc. Activities that would not have to be in conflict with the ABC. I would continue on with the master plan that the city has already developed and leave the area around the coliseum open for the public and public events. Fix up the parks and parking. Then let the private community invest in the private land further back from the water and the Coliseum. They could build knowing that they will have the views and that the open space will remain open. Finally that does not mean that the waterfront could not be developed with marinas and smaller one story buildings for selling crafts or food if the community so desires in a way that is picturesque and consistent with the past history of the city.
November 2, 2009
4:40 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
I bow to your expertise with respect to the Olympic Training Facility. I have not done the research although I find the idea appealing and uplifting. Assuming you are correct I return to my original suggestion. 
I am disappointed that you do not find the architecture appealing but hey the pyramids were stripped of their exterior by scavengers, the sphinx had its nose shot off and in my home city of Brooklyn New York brownstones were abandoned and vandalized as old and outdated, to the point where many were demolished. Loft living came about because empty warehouses some with extraordinary architecture were thought to be ugly and useless for business purposes and many manufacturers and small business's moved out of downtown Manhattan leaving artists the vacant spaces at very inexpensive prices. Today a brownstone I paid thirty thousand for in the 1980's is selling for over a million dollars even in this real estate market and those loft spaces that landlords couldn't give away are also in the millions of dollars. 
What is wrong with downtown Corpus Christi is that speculators, many of them local bought property downtown cheap and now want winfall profits. People like Rowling tore down buildings that pioneers could have rehabilitated and he left vacant lots. 
The best thing the city can do is turn the old county courthouse into low income artist housing. We need to build and create an environment to which creative people, artists, crafts people, etc will be attracted and can afford to move. The city needs to take the first steps to help supply the spaces for displaying art and performance etc. 
I would still suggest that we clean up the Coliseum so that it's appearance is restored. Lock it up tight and securely to prevent further vandalism. I would like the community to think of all the ways they could reuse the building for public events, maybe an exhibition hall, small performance spaces, arts and crafts, native culture, possibly a military museum etc. Activities that would not have to be in conflict with the ABC. I would continue on with the master plan that the city has already developed and leave the area around the coliseum open for the public and public events. Fix up the parks and parking. Then let the private community invest in the private land further back from the water and the Coliseum. They could build knowing that they will have the views and that the open space will remain open. Finally that does not mean that the waterfront could not be developed with marinas and smaller one story buildings for selling crafts or food if the community so desires in a way that is picturesque and consistent with the past history of the city.
Are you comparing the Memorial Coliseum with the Great Pyramids of Giza? Yikes!
I am not saying that the building is beyond use. I am simply saying that the property is PRIME waterfront property. If you limit the redevelopment of the waterfront to including this eyesoar of a building as an anchor to development, you have effectively limited the amount of development that can take place there. Perhaps, instead of simply trying to decide whether the building can be viable, the City Council should decide whether or not the property could be better developed WITHOUT the building.
Unfortunately, some people can't see the forest because all of the trees are blocking their view.
Yet, I am quite certain that another spectator arena is just as unneeded in the downtown waterfront area as another mall would be unneeded just off of SPID. While I may not be an expert on the building itself, I do understand attraction and usability quite well. A swimming center would attract only limited amounts of visitors and an ice arena ALREADY exists (where the IceRays currently play) and would not attract anyone new.
The downtown waterfront is in desperate need of visitors...and visitors who will spend money (both at the attractions themselves and other downtown establishments). The development project should produce sustained visitors year round. An ice arena, swimming practice facility and apartments just won't sustain a number of visitors to the area. However, if the Memorial Coliseum were taken out of the picture, developers could propose some options that might accomplish this goal.
There is just so much potential for this property! Unfortunately, it is being thwarted by members of the City Council who are unwilling or unable to think outside of a box that is shaped like an old, decrepit coliseum.
November 2, 2009
5:25 p.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Are you comparing the Memorial Coliseum with the Great Pyramids of Giza? Yikes!
I am not saying that the building is beyond use. I am simply saying that the property is PRIME waterfront property. If you limit the redevelopment of the waterfront to including this eyesoar of a building as an anchor to development, you have effectively limited the amount of development that can take place there. Perhaps, instead of simply trying to decide whether the building can be viable, the City Council should decide whether or not the property could be better developed WITHOUT the building.
Unfortunately, some people can't see the forest because all of the trees are blocking their view.
Yet, I am quite certain that another spectator arena is just as unneeded in the downtown waterfront area as another mall would be unneeded just off of SPID. While I may not be an expert on the building itself, I do understand attraction and usability quite well. A swimming center would attract only limited amounts of visitors and an ice arena ALREADY exists (where the IceRays currently play) and would not attract anyone new.
The downtown waterfront is in desperate need of visitors...and visitors who will spend money (both at the attractions themselves and other downtown establishments). The development project should produce sustained visitors year round. An ice arena, swimming practice facility and apartments just won't sustain a number of visitors to the area. However, if the Memorial Coliseum were taken out of the picture, developers could propose some options that might accomplish this goal.
There is just so much potential for this property! Unfortunately, it is being thwarted by members of the City Council who are unwilling or unable to think outside of a box that is shaped like an old, decrepit coliseum.
I'm just trying to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on the icerays. You keep talking about development as if there was some kind of magic development that will somehow appear because you tear down the building? The community has already objecting to Rowlings Carnival and the whole ferris wheel fiasco. All of which could easily fit on the ABC side of downtown accept that Rowling owns most of that and is doing nothing with it. Then there was Brass with a conglomeration of ugly buildings and a parking garage blocking the views right on top of the water. I really don't want to see more skyscrapers or massive private development that blocks the publics access and I think most everyone else agrees with that so although it may be prime, just what exactly do you believe it is prime for if not the people who live here? Why not just leave the Coliseum alone and the land vacant accept for the grass and trees and maybe a playground or two? If you utilize the Coliseum for performance, art and crafts, the tourists will come. The problem is to make what's left of downtown work, not overbuild it with more competing business's that will just divide what little tourist money there is. I have lived in neighborhoods that others thought were desolate. We invested our money and sweat and little by little, others came and invested their money. I say again that the problem is not the Coliseum but the speculators that are holding back the downtown by sitting on their property and doing nothing. The city and county are not helping by turning the old County Courthouse and the Coliseum into eyesores. Sometimes when all else fails it takes money to make money and that includes City and County Governments. You have all that private land held in private hands downtown. If the land is so darn prime why aren't these smart a** speculators building on it and creating business's? Even before this downturn in the economy that land was still sitting empty and now with no money around you want to start destroying the Coliseum so that more speculators can come looking for handouts from the taxpayers? The value just isn't there. It is make believe, smoke and mirrors and that is something I know a whole lot about.
November 2, 2009
6:31 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
I'm just trying to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on the icerays. You keep talking about development as if there was some kind of magic development that will somehow appear because you tear down the building? The community has already objecting to Rowlings Carnival and the whole ferris wheel fiasco. All of which could easily fit on the ABC side of downtown accept that Rowling owns most of that and is doing nothing with it. Then there was Brass with a conglomeration of ugly buildings and a parking garage blocking the views right on top of the water. I really don't want to see more skyscrapers or massive private development that blocks the publics access and I think most everyone else agrees with that so although it may be prime, just what exactly do you believe it is prime for if not the people who live here? Why not just leave the Coliseum alone and the land vacant accept for the grass and trees and maybe a playground or two? If you utilize the Coliseum for performance, art and crafts, the tourists will come. The problem is to make what's left of downtown work, not overbuild it with more competing business's that will just divide what little tourist money there is. I have lived in neighborhoods that others thought were desolate. We invested our money and sweat and little by little, others came and invested their money. I say again that the problem is not the Coliseum but the speculators that are holding back the downtown by sitting on their property and doing nothing. The city and county are not helping by turning the old County Courthouse and the Coliseum into eyesores. Sometimes when all else fails it takes money to make money and that includes City and County Governments. You have all that private land held in private hands downtown. If the land is so darn prime why aren't these smart a** speculators building on it and creating business's? Even before this downturn in the economy that land was still sitting empty and now with no money around you want to start destroying the Coliseum so that more speculators can come looking for handouts from the taxpayers? The value just isn't there. It is make believe, smoke and mirrors and that is something I know a whole lot about.
I am not talking about "magic" development.
Rather, the development of this property is limited simply because the City Council will not consider developments that do not include this very huge and ugly building.
And, yes, this building sits right in the middle of some of the most valuable property along the waterfront! The reason that this has taken so long is because the city council is only considering plans that include the building itself. Since it is perpendicularly spread right across the property from street to street, this is a huge limit to potential development (and developers).
If I were responsible for this, I would have torn down that building a long time ago. At least, the potential for possible development alternatives would actually increase.
If we want people to come to the waterfront, then they have to have a reason to come. We can complain all we want about how their money will be divided up. However, not many people will come to a swim center, apartments or just another shopping center.
However, people can be drawn to the downtown waterfront from the other side of city, the surrounding towns and the rest of the state if they can visit something that is different than what they can visit in San Antonio or Galveston. Corpus Christi has a beautiful waterfront. A "Pier 39" type of development would cause people to have a reason to enjoy that beauty.
When I was married, my family flew in from all over the country. They spent time in Corpus Christi. They did the typical Lexington and Aquarium time. They were amazed at the beauty of the waterfront. However, I heard several of them say, "Too bad there just isn't much to do around here." I truly believe that something like Pier 39 would actually become a central draw for the city.
November 2, 2009
6:49 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
I am not talking about "magic" development.
Rather, the development of this property is limited simply because the City Council will not consider developments that do not include this very huge and ugly building.
And, yes, this building sits right in the middle of some of the most valuable property along the waterfront! The reason that this has taken so long is because the city council is only considering plans that include the building itself. Since it is perpendicularly spread right across the property from street to street, this is a huge limit to potential development (and developers).
If I were responsible for this, I would have torn down that building a long time ago. At least, the potential for possible development alternatives would actually increase.
If we want people to come to the waterfront, then they have to have a reason to come. We can complain all we want about how their money will be divided up. However, not many people will come to a swim center, apartments or just another shopping center.
However, people can be drawn to the downtown waterfront from the other side of city, the surrounding towns and the rest of the state if they can visit something that is different than what they can visit in San Antonio or Galveston. Corpus Christi has a beautiful waterfront. A "Pier 39" type of development would cause people to have a reason to enjoy that beauty.
When I was married, my family flew in from all over the country. They spent time in Corpus Christi. They did the typical Lexington and Aquarium time. They were amazed at the beauty of the waterfront. However, I heard several of them say, "Too bad there just isn't much to do around here." I truly believe that something like Pier 39 would actually become a central draw for the city.
In addition to Pier 39, there are many other examples of what can be done. There is Bayside in Miami, Jacksonville Landing, Jekyll Island in Georgia, Inner Harbor in Baltimore, Pier 70 and Penn's Landing in Philly, South Street Seaport in NYC and Anthony's Pier in Boston.
It can be done, it takes imagination and gumption, two items that seem to be in short supply.

Archive: Caller comment board on the Council vote to stop talks with Brass Real Estate

That's disappointing. Well all we can hope for now is a quick knock down and move on.
October 27, 2009
8:09 p.m.

KTR1701 writes:
At this point I think the only way we are getting rid of the Coliseum is if someone has connections in the Air Force and we can arrange for a GBU-43/B (Mother Of All Bombs) to be "accidentally" dropped on it.
(The statement above is meant only to bring attention to the folly of this situation and is not intended as a serious suggestion in any way.)
October 27, 2009
8:22 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to gino65:
Leal has absolutely no business sitting on the council. If you look real close you can see that there is actually someone else’s hard up the back of her shirt making her lips move. And yet, she was reelected. That speaks volumes about the voters in this city.
Careful : Gomer Pyle ,She is a lot smarter than say , YOU & A few other Lame Brains on these posts . And for once you said something that made sense she was Re Elected !! Try spell ck Smartie
Caution : :Thin Wet Ice Ahead
October 27, 2009
8:23 p.m.

azalsimp writes:
As a new resident, here for work, this disappoints me tremendously. It sure looks like the city council is too scared to make a decision; too afraid to do something to make the downtown less unattractive. These types of decisions are why so many people who grew up in Corpus Christi no longer live here. They are also why people do not come.
October 27, 2009
8:24 p.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
Pathetic. I wonder how many checks were written by the puppet masters from Sunday's article to these four gutless wonders!
October 27, 2009
8:27 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to MikeInCC:
I am as disappointed as anybody that the negotiations with Brass have ended. However, after watching the negotiation team's presentation tonight, there were some things that came to light that I can see why the deal wasn't so good. The project needed to be completed in its entirety, and Brass wasn't willing to commit beyond redeveloping the Coliseum and the apartments. Before you jump down the Council's throat, wait until you get the full story of why they decided to end it. You might agree with them too after you know the facts.
The Brass deal changed because the City moved the goal line at least twice after the game started. That plain, that simple.
Elizondo spoke about a checklist that "should" have accompanied the RFP. If I had been one of the companies that responded to the original RFP and then was hit by the roadblocks put up by legal, I would have sued the City for false advertising. Go back to the original RFP, check it out and then check the next set of revised instructions. Total incompetence at the Legal Dept., the Economic Development Dept. and last but certainly not least, the most incompetent of all and that would be our fearless leader, Angel Escobar. He is the City Manager and should have seen to it that all the t's were crossed and the i's dotted before anything hit paper.
Be very sure about this, the City is the one that screwed this up from A to Z. Let there be no doubt in your mind.
October 27, 2009
8:28 p.m.

AppleJack writes:
PLEASE!! Just nuke that old piece of crap! The city council will NEVER agree on a project that will equally line all their pockets!!!
Just blow it up and make a nice park or something for real cheap.
Heck, create a fund raiser and call it "Bringing Down the House" and people can pay a dollar to swing a sledge hammer for a few minutes and for 20 dollars you can light and throw a stick of dynamite into the building. You'll make enough money to clean of this toxic waste dump!!
October 27, 2009
8:44 p.m.

ANativeOfTexas writes:
Our city has so much potential. We are a diamond in the rough. Unfortunately, our city council has no idea how to run a city so we will remain unpolished. We need to vote out all incumbents.
October 27, 2009
9:37 p.m.

Really_I_MeanReally writes:
Really?!? I Mean Really?!?...How long will this go on! I will be dead before a freakin decision is ever made about that place. The City of Corpus Christi, rather "The City of We Can't Make a Dang Decision for Shizzzz!!! Ugh.
October 27, 2009
9:38 p.m.

ChubnCC writes:
You have to be kidding me!! I thought the issue had been settled! I bet no other business are going to spend their time or money trying to bring their business here. Where is the change you promised Adame??
October 27, 2009
9:43 p.m.

cuellar_6#715527 writes:
It is a no wonder when kids finnish high school or graduate from either Del Mar or A&M-CC they get on I-37 and get out of Corpus Christi. They know there is no oppritunity here.
Honestly I would have liked someone to rebuild the Coliseum cause events at the ABC are such a rip off. Plus I know the Hockey games and the rodeo were better there.
October 27, 2009
9:44 p.m.

Really_I_MeanReally writes:
in response to ChubnCC:
You have to be kidding me!! I thought the issue had been settled! I bet no other business are going to spend their time or money trying to bring their business here. Where is the change you promised Adame??
Right! Adame is a joke and so are all the freaking council members!!!! I take my vote back...soooo disappointed a "dam me"!
October 27, 2009
9:44 p.m.

haceunano writes:
You all need to not make fun of Ms Leal. She is a decent, smart person that always asks the right questions at the right time. Just like those NRA and conservative folks would say: How would you like to attend the City Council meeting in Russia or Cuba. If you don't like it here go there!. The folks that really thought the Council would vote for Brass, you need to stay in CC so that you can learn how things work. I really thought Chesny had greased the skids a little more better. Oh well. Standby Mark.
October 27, 2009
9:48 p.m.

Islander98 writes:
in response to ANativeOfTexas:
Our city has so much potential. We are a diamond in the rough. Unfortunately, our city council has no idea how to run a city so we will remain unpolished. We need to vote out all incumbents.
who would you vote in? As long as City Council pays $6000 per year, the only folks that are going to run are the same old folks that are either wealthy and have conflicts of interest or retired and content with keeping things as they are.
Vote 'em in vote 'em out - it'll be the same.
October 27, 2009
9:49 p.m.

cc_webdog#243583 writes:
The Olympic swim training center is the best fit for our proud city. Not too hot, not too cold, just right. All of their quoted statements lead me to believe they know what they are doing.
October 27, 2009
9:49 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
Brass, I told you so!
Time to sue the bastards.
October 27, 2009
10:02 p.m.

rhapsodysmelody writes:
Tear it down just like Parkdale Plaza!
October 27, 2009
10:03 p.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
The city, with its twisted staff and Council do not have a clue nor care about the betterment of this community. You're a bunch of panty waisted good ol boyz who are the laughing stock of the nation.
NO ONE will ever consider having themselves put into a position of being spat at again. And to those who keep on coming on thinking you will get any support from these small town losers, when are you gonna learn? Forget this place!
Joe Gardner sued, now it's your chance!
October 27, 2009
10:15 p.m.

ilovecc writes:
Okay bloggers, let's show these four scumbags our might. Let's find four people to run AGAINST these four lowlifes who sold out our city.
1. Mark Scott At Large-against everything.
2. Nelda Martinez-fake sincerity follows Mark Scott.
3. Chris Adler-once a decent person now a complete sell out to the people of Corpus Christi.
4. John Marez-dumber than a stump, didn't know he was being fooled.
Let's find 4 decent and honorable people to be our real City Council. They will actually be replacing George Hawn, David Loeb, Leon Loeb and Trey McCampbell.
October 27, 2009
10:22 p.m.

sue-c#352597 writes:
I thought we would have a new breath of fresh air with a new City Council. But "executive session" and then they decide to vote against a company that is willing to put time, effort, and money into our downtown???? Is it just a coincidence that so many people voting against Brass happen to be in the real estate development arena? I am so mad I could just spit. This is the old boys club once again. The same old thing, the same old few making decisions that WILL NOT benefit Corpus Christi. I live on the island and I am sorry I voted for my alderwoman. IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN!!! Do these people think the citizens of Corpus Christi are so stupid we don't know what went on here today??? Parking garage, my eyeball. Can we get a rule or something that says if the City Council razes the MC, nobody who was on the Council or the Mayor or any of their family members can benefit financially from the land left for sale? Just wondering.
October 27, 2009
10:25 p.m.

Serenity writes:
I say tear it down along with the old courthouse. I am so sick of hearing about it all. We could just wait until next year and see what happens during hurricane season. No one wants a hurricane to hit here, but I guarantee one will knock these two buildings down.
October 27, 2009
10:34 p.m.

sue-c#352597 writes:
If so many of our city leaders are in the real estate business, why do they think it is a bad thing when a company wants to put time, effort and money into our downtown? Perhaps they didn't ever want it. Can we have a rule that says anyone sitting on this council and the mayor may not make any financial gains whatsoever on the land if the MC is torn down? This would, of course, include any and all relatives, holdings and other companies they may have a vested interested in. How do we do that?



This project is going nowhere. The site location is way too small. Even though I really wish it goes through, knowing how far behind Crapus is, it aint gonna happen. If it does, I will be shocked.
October 27, 2009
11:47 a.m.

dwp007#715457 writes:
Could we for once stop living in Mayberry and do something for the greater good of all?
I have lived all over the country and Corpus Christi is pathetic when it comes to local politics and getting things done. Pass this project and [finally] get our city pointed in the right direction in regard to economic growth and development.
That old eyesore of a building would have been completely redone about 4 1/2 years ago in a progressive minded, growth oriented city.
For once, council members, do something positive and constructive. - Barney Fife
October 27, 2009
11:52 a.m.

BringThePain writes:
To the City Council,
Please sell the property to the highest bidder, and let them develop however they feel. There are more important issues at hand to worry about.
Signed,
A Voter who will remember all of you at election time...
October 27, 2009
12:16 p.m.

modesto.sanchez51#717676 writes:
WELL, HERE WE GO AGAIN. SHOPS AND APARTMENTS...WHAT, BE REAL. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN CORPUS AND LEFT AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. I DO RETURN TO VISIT FAMILY AND MY PASSION FOR FISHING. ONE DAY I DECIDED TO TAKE A WALK ALONG THE SHORELINE. I ATTEMPTED TO WALK THE GETTY A FAVORITE FISHING SPOT AS A KID...IT WAS CHAINED CLOSED ALTHOUGH PEOPLE WALKED AROUND THE BARRIOR...RESTROOMS WERE CLOSED AND FRANKLY THE PLACE WAS QUITE PHILTHY. AS I WALKED THE SHORLINE TOWARDS THE CHANNEL, SADLY THE TRASH THAT POUNDED THE SEA WALL WAS QUITE SAD. HOW CAN THE COUNCIL...AND THE REST OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT ADDRESS THE COLISEUM AND EXPECT MONEY TO COME INTO THE SPARKLING CITY WHEN IT'S TRASHED OUT...HOW SAD...YES MY HOME TOWN. OH YES, AND THE STREETS...SURE COULD USE SOME NEW PAVING AND NOT PATCHING. IT'S THE ACCUMULATION OF THINGS THAT NEED WORKING ON TO SUSTAIN ANY KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN CORPUS. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED WHAT CHANGE WILL DO. PLEASE DO THE CITY AS A WHOLE AND NOT ONLY ON THE SOUTH SIDE. PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THINGS COUNCIL MEMBERS AND "MAKE IT HAPPEN" NOT JUST SIT THERE THINK YOU'RE FOOLING THE EDUCATED MIND. DON'T LOOSE RESPECT FOR YOURSELVES, AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO AMELIORATE THINGS IN CORPUS...THEY SIT THERE AND DETERIORATE.
October 27, 2009
12:46 p.m.

jks writes:
does anyone know if the last minute petition drive got enough signers to send this issue on another merry go round ride?
October 27, 2009
1:11 p.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
If the project is worthwhile, build it a block over where it won't obscure the bayfront or take away our city greenspace. Oh wait, they don't want to do that - they would have to spend their own money! Plenty of available property right across the street but no taxpayer subsidies. I'll keep my bayfront and parks - you keep your hand out of my wallet!
October 27, 2009
1:26 p.m.

256161 writes:
in response to jks:
does anyone know if the last minute petition drive got enough signers to send this issue on another merry go round ride?
Coliseum petition effort ongoing
www.caller.com/news/2009/oct/26/coliseum-petition-effort-ongoing/
October 27, 2009
1:28 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
I would be satisfied with either of these decisions to be made today, not tomorrow, not next week, TODAY:
1. Go full speed ahead with the Brass plan
2. Tear it down and start tearing it down tomorrow
Anything less means prolonging the agony, anything less means that we have zero decision makers on this Council, anything less means that nothing will ever change, anything less means that I have decisions to make for the sake of my mental health and the welfare of my family.
October 27, 2009
1:44 p.m.

ShinerDraft writes:
I'm for the Brass proposal, but at the same time I understand the desire to just tear it down & be done with it.
But be careful what you wish for. All that's going to do is add the words "former site of ..." to any headline dealing with ideas for the Coliseum.
In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not.
October 27, 2009
2:01 p.m.

DrSteevil writes:
in response to ShinerDraft:
I'm for the Brass proposal, but at the same time I understand the desire to just tear it down & be done with it.
But be careful what you wish for. All that's going to do is add the words "former site of ..." to any headline dealing with ideas for the Coliseum.
In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not.
You know, that's a very good point there. I wonder why it hasn't been brought up before? The only thing I can see as a positive though is that the eye-sore currently there will be gone.
October 27, 2009
2:09 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to ShinerDraft:
I'm for the Brass proposal, but at the same time I understand the desire to just tear it down & be done with it.
But be careful what you wish for. All that's going to do is add the words "former site of ..." to any headline dealing with ideas for the Coliseum.
In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not.
"In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not."
and you are correct which is why I emphasized that a decision needs to be made. If you are elected to any office you must be able to make decisions and there are times that those decisions may not be popular or lack controversy. But my position is that this particular Council needs to MAKE a decision if for no other reason than to demonstrate that capability to the voters and taxpayers of this City.
October 27, 2009
3:41 p.m.

sue-c#352597 writes:
Give it to Brass. If they don't want it, give it to the swimming people. These are groups wanting to put money into our downtown. What is the matter with the City Council? We can have them keep their buildings as high or lower than the MC where it will not block any views. They even have those agreements in neighborhoods. This is not rocket science.
October 27, 2009
3:53 p.m.

whitetiger68#721889 writes:
This council is overloaded with realtors right
up to mayor.All they are doing now is seeing which one of them come our on top.All the realtors and bankers should
abstain oops no majority vote.
October 27, 2009
3:58 p.m.

penname writes:
The National Swimming Center Corporation says the Coliseum would save them $10 million in construction costs for the Olympic training center. They have $20 million in the bank to get started and would fix the roof and cosmetic problems right away. Say no to Brass and yes to the Olympic pool.
October 27, 2009
4:19 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to whitetiger68#721889:
This council is overloaded with realtors right
up to mayor.All they are doing now is seeing which one of them come our on top.All the realtors and bankers should
abstain oops no majority vote.
So what should we load the Council with......, let's see, the homeless, the chronically unemployed, the illiterate. Try to understand this very simple premise, each and every resident and registered voter in this City has a vested interested with what happens on the Council, therefore each and every resident and registered voter has a "conflict of interest". It does not get any simpler than that.
I personally like the fact that there are realtors and title people on the Council...it translates real easy, they succeed, we all succeed, they make money, we get a better and bigger tax base, a bigger and better tax base means more cops, better streets, better parks, safer shopping, etc., etc., etc.
No, I am not a realtor, no, I am not in the title business. no, I don't have any property that I am trying to sell or buy. What I am is just another taxpayer whose taxes just went up and I still have to drive on torn up Staples, Cole Park is still not safe, downtown looks like World War 2 London, the streets are filthy, it has been three or 4 years that Development Services has been being "consulted" and they still can't get it right and all we can afford for a City Manager is "amateur hour" instead of a real true to life bonafide, qualified City Manager.
By the way, you can search my posts, I travel for a living and Corpus Christi is not even a convenient place to travel from in order to cover my territory. I am here because I like it here but we need to make changes and to stop going backwards.
Stop worrying about who will make a profit and look at the big picture or is that more than you can handle.?
October 27, 2009
4:26 p.m.

octomusangel writes:
Just do it.
October 27, 2009
4:55 p.m.

TANKPATTON writes:
Im so sick of this story.
October 27, 2009
4:56 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
"4:30 P.M.: Rey Madrigal, another member who supports saving the coliseum separate of Brass' plans, spoke to the council by himself afterward.
"I believe that Memorial Coliseum should be restored back to its original form," he said.
Madrigal is circulating a petition asking the council to do just that. He has more than half the signatures he needs, he said."
Question for you Mr. Madrigal...who is going to pay for this restoration? Surely not you based on your property tax records.
You should also stop misleading people, the Coliseum was not built to memorialize veterans. It was given the name Memorial Coliseum long after it was built.
The logical place for the Memorial plaque is Sherrill Park since this is the location that usually hosts all remembrance events. Of course you know this, I have seen you there on more than one occasion.
October 27, 2009
5:18 p.m.

Dude writes:
The live updates are great! Thanks CT!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
5:31 p.m.

YETI writes:
BRASS OR RAZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
5:33 p.m.

Ag4Life writes:
Anyone notice that the majority of voices before the council today were community activists/complainers who never do anything other than stir things up to the point that it clutters the conversation and causes the city leaders to hold off making a decision?
These people are the ones to blame for nothing ever happening in our city. They get civic groups fighting against each other and create division in our communities. All they want to do is get in front of an audience or camera and be seen to inflate their own egos.
What lowly little souls they are. And what a misled council we have that even allows them to have a voice in the matter. Just get off of your thumbs and make a bleeping decision already.
SSDD!
October 27, 2009
5:38 p.m.

Ag4Life writes:
5:39 P.M..............Council still hoping for some kind of magic to appear and provide them with a pull-a-solution-outta-yourass end to this fiasco.
October 27, 2009
5:59 p.m.

ilovecc writes:
If the Council doesn't go through with this BRASS deal, does anyone know the formal process of kicking out the City Council before the next election?
October 27, 2009
6:29 p.m.

Esmael091956 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
If the Council doesn't go through with this BRASS deal, does anyone know the formal process of kicking out the City Council before the next election?
It's called a petition to impeach - if you go to the city's website there should be a protocol on there under "Government". If not, look up Texas Local Government Code and City Council election recall or impeachment.
October 27, 2009
7:02 p.m.

YETI writes:
I'm sorry I voted for you Adler..
October 27, 2009
7:02 p.m.

shelby67 writes:
WOW!!!
That's all I can say... Wow. This city really doesn't want to move forward, does it?
October 27, 2009
7:03 p.m.


gino65 writes:
Well no surprise, the council voted to break off negotiations with Brass. Well there is always next years hurricane season.
October 27, 2009
7:16 p.m.

Dutchess writes:
in response to dwp007#715457:
Could we for once stop living in Mayberry and do something for the greater good of all?
I have lived all over the country and Corpus Christi is pathetic when it comes to local politics and getting things done. Pass this project and [finally] get our city pointed in the right direction in regard to economic growth and development.
That old eyesore of a building would have been completely redone about 4 1/2 years ago in a progressive minded, growth oriented city.
For once, council members, do something positive and constructive. - Barney Fife
I think living in Mayberry would be better than this ....
October 27, 2009
7:16 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
October 27, 2009
7:23 p.m.

ilovecc writes:
400 permanent jobs-gone
1,500 temporary jobs-gone
$90 million development-gone
Chris Adler, John Marez, Mark Scott and Nelda Martinez are a disgrace to Corpus Christi.
October 27, 2009
7:25 p.m.

Seal writes:
O'Connell said the group learned a lot during the proposal process that could help it finish the job now.
"Corpus Christi politics are different than anywhere else," he said.
nuff said.
October 27, 2009
7:28 p.m.

MikeInCC writes:
I am as disappointed as anybody that the negotiations with Brass have ended. However, after watching the negotiation team's presentation tonight, there were some things that came to light that I can see why the deal wasn't so good. The project needed to be completed in its entirety, and Brass wasn't willing to commit beyond redeveloping the Coliseum and the apartments. Before you jump down the Council's throat, wait until you get the full story of why they decided to end it. You might agree with them too after you know the facts.
October 27, 2009
7:33 p.m.

penname writes:
HOORAY!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
7:35 p.m.

ctx39441#331813 writes:
I am very embarrassed for my city. Tear it down NOW! We are the joke of the state. INEPT, INEPT, INEPT, INEPT!
October 27, 2009
7:35 p.m.

tx_organic writes:
We should just leave it alone and rename the place to the "Selena once lived here, and I went to a concert, and circus, and a hockey game there once colosseum" or...the "We have no sense of positive direction in this town colosseum". Why don't we just make it into a massive church, taqueria, mercado, used car lot combo facility? Then everyone would have to go to just one place to meet all of their needs. Or how about a Planned Parenthood superplex? Or a new TAMs school...no wait...it's not big enough for that. WHEN WILL CORPUS CHRISTI OPEN IT'S EYES TO THE FUTURE AND TAKE IT"S EYES OFF OF THE PAST???????!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
7:37 p.m.

helogeek#713679 writes:
We should just leave it alone and rename the place to the "Selena once lived here, and I went to a concert, and circus, and a hockey game there once colosseum" or...the "We have no sense of positive direction in this town colosseum". Why don't we just make it into a massive church, taqueria, mercado, used car lot combo facility? Then everyone would have to go to just one place to meet all of their needs. Or how about a Planned Parenthood superplex? Or a new TAMs school...no wait...it's not big enough for that. WHEN WILL CORPUS CHRISTI OPEN IT'S EYES TO THE FUTURE AND TAKE IT"S EYES OFF OF THE PAST???????!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
7:39 p.m.


ccmarina11#248620 writes:
Swim center.
October 27, 2009
7:40 p.m.

helogeek#713679 writes:
I give up caring about this city a long time ago.
October 27, 2009
7:40 p.m.

1callerblogger writes:
I am originally from CC born and raised. Moved to Houston 20 years ago. I was fortunate to move back to CC for a year in an employment contract position. I lived on the 12th floor of a condo overlooking the beautiful beach and bay. I was really embarassed when friends and family came to visit because the coliseum was the landmark. "Turn at the old dilapidated building with the torn up green roof". I never mentioned the "haunted looking", empty county courthouse. What is also a major eyesore is all the empty concrete spaces from former car lots, building foundations, failed businesses, etc. My unprofessional, humble opinion is tear the poor thing down. Excavate it and ask the owners of the other empty concrete pastures to do the same. Plant those lots in nice greenery, just grass would do, and that would go a long way, inexpensively, for those landowners after tax breaks, to at least dress up the Shoreline area displaying some "green" for the tourists that CC's economy relies so strongly on. I think that I spelled everything right. My "checks" screwed.
October 27, 2009
7:43 p.m.


tx_organic writes:
Thank you for your support helogeek :-)
October 27, 2009
7:43 p.m.

thirdcoast writes:
Kudos to City Council for making this decision. I support it 100 percent. We need something to happen there but not a huge monstrosity like the Brass Development.
October 27, 2009
7:44 p.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
Leal has absolutely no business sitting on the council. If you look real close you can see that there is actually someone else’s hard up the back of her shirt making her lips move. And yet, she was reelected. That speaks volumes about the voters in this city.
October 27, 2009
7:48 p.m.

Brit writes:
Why are we NOT surprised by this. Its how EVERY project ideas ends up in this town.
What we have to do now is face that Corpus will always be the backward, non-progressive town it has been for decades, watching cities once smaller than ours pass us by the wayside.
October 27, 2009
7:50 p.m.

Esmael091956 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
I wonder that every time she speaks! So glad to know I am not the only one seeking a translator when she is finished! :)
October 27, 2009
7:50 p.m.

I'm shocked.....NOT
October 27, 2009
7:51 p.m.


rmacjr writes:
OMG... This is so pathetic!
The Coliseum, pot hole roads, Corpus Christi politics, A&M wanting to expand, graffiti, stabbings & shooting, harbor bridge lighting up, Las Brisas, corruption @ CCPD administration, over crowding of the jail, homeless population, Kemah Boardwalk, Schlitterbahn Water Park, Sea World, Columbus Ships rotting, Old Nueces County Courthouse . . .
And the list goes on!
I love my home (Corpus Christi) but sometimes I sit back and wonder how we end up in these situations.
October 27, 2009
7:51 p.m.


quiet_guy_1999#245313 writes:
in response to gino65:
Leal has absolutely no business sitting on the council. If you look real close you can see that there is actually someone else’s hard up the back of her shirt making her lips move. And yet, she was reelected. That speaks volumes about the voters in this city.
LOL!! Stupid but very funny!! Thanks for the chuckle!
October 27, 2009
7:52 p.m.


gino65 writes:
in response to ccmarina11#248620:
Swim center.
If the Brass deal was too expensive for the council how can they even look at the swim center again? It was more money and they wanted to own the land. Sound like a great deal? Development and pie dreams are wonderful things but in the real world they cost money. Do you know where the money comes from? Everyone raise your hands.
October 27, 2009
7:59 p.m.


gino65 writes:
in response to rmacjr:
OMG... This is so pathetic!
The Coliseum, pot hole roads, Corpus Christi politics, A&M wanting to expand, graffiti, stabbings & shooting, harbor bridge lighting up, Las Brisas, corruption @ CCPD administration, over crowding of the jail, homeless population, Kemah Boardwalk, Schlitterbahn Water Park, Sea World, Columbus Ships rotting, Old Nueces County Courthouse . . .
And the list goes on!
I love my home (Corpus Christi) but sometimes I sit back and wonder how we end up in these situations.
Very simple, you reelect the same people who did nothing during their previous term(s). Why? Apathy, laziness, uniformed / uneducated voters, and too many people who don’t want to lose their view of the bay or gulf. I guess while they are looking at the water they can’t see the trash at their feet.
October 27, 2009
7:59 p.m.


agitator writes:
THIS IS THE WORSE PIECE OF CRAP CITY IN THE COUNTRY.


in response to publicenemy357:
Careful : Gomer Pyle ,She is a lot smarter than say , YOU & A few other Lame Brains on these posts . And for once you said something that made sense she was Re Elected !! Try spell ck Smartie
Caution : :Thin Wet Ice Ahead
Publicenemy you must be one of the brainiacs who voted for Leal. She is a puppet for Roland Garza. By the way she was reelected. Try using a dictionary before you exhibit your ignorance again. Reelect, verb, to elect for another term according to Merriam Webster. A product of the CCISD?
October 27, 2009
11:51 p.m.


gino65 writes:
in response to haceunano:
You all need to not make fun of Ms Leal. She is a decent, smart person that always asks the right questions at the right time. Just like those NRA and conservative folks would say: How would you like to attend the City Council meeting in Russia or Cuba. If you don't like it here go there!. The folks that really thought the Council would vote for Brass, you need to stay in CC so that you can learn how things work. I really thought Chesny had greased the skids a little more better. Oh well. Standby Mark.
If we were in Russia or Cuba at least they would have made a decision. “you need to stay in CC so that you can learn how things work” I think I have seen enough. I think we need some “more better” council members.
October 28, 2009
midnight


ccskibunny writes:
No surprise to me. I always thought the Brass deal was a little too "pie in the sky" to really work. And way too much "stuff" forced into a small space, taking away from the beauty of and access to the Bayfront.
Although I would like something in this City to be proud of. Downtown is an embarrassment. And there is nothing to do, once you get past the beach and fishing. Perhaps it is time to consider a casino. I would like to see gambling pass, and a nice resort casino come here to CC.
I would like to see a really nice Bayfront park developed on the site.....once you lose the green space, you never get it back. And yes, tear down the Coliseum, build an appropriate memorial with the rest of the memorials and tear down the rotting building that has become a haven for the homeless. There are plenty of other spaces available for development, as long as people are willing to get creative.
October 28, 2009
12:27 a.m.


bluegirlscout writes:
in response to sue-c#352597:
Give it to Brass. If they don't want it, give it to the swimming people. These are groups wanting to put money into our downtown. What is the matter with the City Council? We can have them keep their buildings as high or lower than the MC where it will not block any views. They even have those agreements in neighborhoods. This is not rocket science.
Don't GIVE it to anyone. It belongs to the citizens of Corpus Christi. Ice skating rinks and swimming pools could be put anywhere in town. Sunrise mall comes to mind. These big developers have money. If their projects are good they will be good investments for the developers. They could put "money into downtown" without feeding at the public trough. There is lots of available space downtown and elsewhere. Taxpayers should not be giving away our cash or our parks and bayfront. Apartments have no place on McGee beach. People come to CC for the BEACH not to swim in a pool or ice skate. Once you give it over to development, you won't get it back. Heck, we own the Coliseum and can't get rid of the eyesore. Do we really need to give our kids Sunrise Mall on McGee beach? I don't think so. Stick with what we voted for on the master plan. It should be a green space/festival area with extra parking and public restrooms for McGee beach and without the Coliseum. Raze the Hut! I'm for development of downtown and for ice skating and swimming. I'm just against funding the bread circuses at public expense.
October 28, 2009
12:33 a.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
The public needs to understand that the parking garage was NEVER a part of the cities RFP. The parking garage was an idea brought forth by BRASS. The Council was too STUPID to understand that the city could get millions of dollars from the Feds for the parking garage. Then, after BRASS explained it to them, Mark Scott demanded a parking garage.
This was a trick by Mark Scott and others to dupe the public into thinking that if BRASS didn't have the parking garage in place, it was a deal killer.
What actually happen is they were not suppose to use the land since the public voted for the 2008 bonds and they had the street realignment and park improvements plans drawn up for those bond monies .Plus the south end of Shoreline had restriction on it about what could be put on it .It was going to be a Big slap in the face when someone finally would figure it out .Not sure butt , I think the ousted attorney was let go for not catching the mistake .Butt , I do know there are some previous plans around for that area that are never being mentioned . As for the Coliseum someone still needs to hold the roofing company liable for damages or the insurance company at the time of closing it down . 
To many If's and Butt's to list .
October 28, 2009
12:36 a.m.


bluegirlscout writes:
in response to ilovecc:
If the Council doesn't go through with this BRASS deal, does anyone know the formal process of kicking out the City Council before the next election?
we have a process,. it is called V-O-T-I_N-G! However, I think they called this one right!
October 28, 2009
12:40 a.m.


juanro writes:
Have y'all seen that funny Sears commercial with Brett Favre as a customer, "agonizing over making a decision"? They ought to come down here and make a commercial with the entire city council. Now, THAT would be funny LOL. Sorry, gotta laff to keep from cryin'.
October 28, 2009
12:48 a.m.


gino65 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
The public needs to understand that the parking garage was NEVER a part of the cities RFP. The parking garage was an idea brought forth by BRASS. The Council was too STUPID to understand that the city could get millions of dollars from the Feds for the parking garage. Then, after BRASS explained it to them, Mark Scott demanded a parking garage.
This was a trick by Mark Scott and others to dupe the public into thinking that if BRASS didn't have the parking garage in place, it was a deal killer.
You make a profound comment. This entire deal (and many before) where thrown away due to our inept council. If you want some real entertainment listen to the last 10- 15 minutes of this evening’s council meeting. These people could not agree if the sky was blue or grass was green. Proof positive that you get what you pay for. $6K per year equates to members who make enough money to do the job part time and most likely have a conflicting interest.
October 28, 2009
2:24 a.m.


birdboy78374 writes:
Things will never change in my hometown. No wonder I left. This city lives in the past! Grow up CC.
October 28, 2009
4 a.m.


elricko writes:
in response to Brit:
Why are we NOT surprised by this. Its how EVERY project ideas ends up in this town.
What we have to do now is face that Corpus will always be the backward, non-progressive town it has been for decades, watching cities once smaller than ours pass us by the wayside.
You must mean; "Why IS everyone surprised by this decision???"
I have a geat idea!!! Turn it into a prison. We need it for all the criminals moving to our city. Prisoners get more tax money than our students do!
October 28, 2009
5:02 a.m.


cbeshears#714811 writes:
Aint nuthing much ever gonna happen here 'cause City Council et al never seem to listen to their constituents, much less make any 'decisions'. So... we remain a stagnant, boring, backwater town on Corpus Christ Bay and our young folks can't wait to get the hell out of here! Can't say I really blame 'em! As for me, other than fishin and beach-combing on Padre - neither of which interests me in the least - aint nuthing else goin on here folks! BUT: get a few new, first-rate, exciting gambling casinos in the defunct downtown area and watch the tourists flock in from all over our State to let their hair down and have some fun! What an idea! Vegas and Reno scenically have nothing comparable with our bayfront and magnificent drive down Ocean Drive (once the MC 'eyesore'is mercifully obliterated). Of course, casino tax revenues for our City and County coffers would make possible vast City improvements without further bleeding money out of local residents.But then...
this is yet another idea beyond the ken of local political powers-that-be, tsk tsk...
October 28, 2009
5:06 a.m.


Gatekeeper writes:
Forget the Coliseum, When is Gollihar Road going to get fixed, its so bumpy it reminds me of my Trip to Athens Greece.
October 28, 2009
5:37 a.m.


mexicatl6#401467 writes:
Congratulations to Ray Madrigal for his and his organization's efforts to save the coliseum. That is civil participation at its best. We should serious consider the Olympic Swimming option and good developoment. Privatizing the best real estate in Corpus Christi is bad for the public. It should be used for the public's benefit, not private individuals and corporations who would charge us for the use of our own resources.
October 28, 2009
5:49 a.m.


g3 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
The only ones to understand what Leal says are waiters and waitresses.
October 28, 2009
6:58 a.m.


haceunano writes:
in response to modesto.sanchez51#717676:
WELL, HERE WE GO AGAIN. SHOPS AND APARTMENTS...WHAT, BE REAL. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN CORPUS AND LEFT AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. I DO RETURN TO VISIT FAMILY AND MY PASSION FOR FISHING. ONE DAY I DECIDED TO TAKE A WALK ALONG THE SHORELINE. I ATTEMPTED TO WALK THE GETTY A FAVORITE FISHING SPOT AS A KID...IT WAS CHAINED CLOSED ALTHOUGH PEOPLE WALKED AROUND THE BARRIOR...RESTROOMS WERE CLOSED AND FRANKLY THE PLACE WAS QUITE PHILTHY. AS I WALKED THE SHORLINE TOWARDS THE CHANNEL, SADLY THE TRASH THAT POUNDED THE SEA WALL WAS QUITE SAD. HOW CAN THE COUNCIL...AND THE REST OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT ADDRESS THE COLISEUM AND EXPECT MONEY TO COME INTO THE SPARKLING CITY WHEN IT'S TRASHED OUT...HOW SAD...YES MY HOME TOWN. OH YES, AND THE STREETS...SURE COULD USE SOME NEW PAVING AND NOT PATCHING. IT'S THE ACCUMULATION OF THINGS THAT NEED WORKING ON TO SUSTAIN ANY KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN CORPUS. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED WHAT CHANGE WILL DO. PLEASE DO THE CITY AS A WHOLE AND NOT ONLY ON THE SOUTH SIDE. PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THINGS COUNCIL MEMBERS AND "MAKE IT HAPPEN" NOT JUST SIT THERE THINK YOU'RE FOOLING THE EDUCATED MIND. DON'T LOOSE RESPECT FOR YOURSELVES, AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO AMELIORATE THINGS IN CORPUS...THEY SIT THERE AND DETERIORATE.
One must be careful when using all CAPS when typing comments herein. There is a person amongst us that will come and response to you when using caps: QUIT SCREAMING. Don't you know the rules, this is computer 101!!!!. The person must be on vacation or traveling with the tea party folks. 
Everything you write is so true.
October 28, 2009
7:10 a.m.


ridley writes:
much of the angst over discontinuing the brass deal would go away if the real facts were known. of course the caller will not tell you, that is if they even know.
October 28, 2009
7:25 a.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
".....The San Antonio-based company wants to refurbish the coliseum and convert it into an ice skating rink and permanent home for the Corpus Christi IceRays. It also plans to develop apartments, a hotel, restaurants and shops on the land around the coliseum."
Ohhhhhhhh, the horrors of such a plan! ^ ^ ^
Improve corpitos? The "leadership" and the City aint up to the task. Now kiddies, repeat after me....
I LIKE BLIGHT! I LIKE BLIGHT! I LIKE BLIGHT! I LIKE BLIGHT!
Gawd this is funny. :-)
October 28, 2009
7:27 a.m.


Fireboy writes:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject. 
PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
October 28, 2009
7:37 a.m.


Dude writes:
The Brass plan was exposed for what it was, a nearly free permanent home for a Hockey team that has never quite made it in all these years.
Shame on council for falling for that to begin with!
Now keep your promise! Mayor, council, you PROMISED action!!!!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!
October 28, 2009
7:40 a.m.


LadyVulcan writes:
For God's sake, developers are going to STOP presenting opportunities to the city! Every idea gets shot down, but no better ones take their place.
THIS is the kind of thing that makes graduates leave Corpus Christi. Why stay in a town with no growth and few jobs when you could move someplace like Houston or Austin, where things ACTUALLY HAPPEN?
October 28, 2009
7:44 a.m.


Riptide writes:
Tear this eye sore down. Enough already with this mess. It's been going on much to long.
October 28, 2009
7:47 a.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
in response to Fireboy:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject. 
PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That is a perfect example of small town thinking regarding the use of resources, improving the tax base and infrastructure, etc.
In fact, I think this nearsighted idea for such a minority interest is all wet lol. Brass' plan would have attracted all kinds of people from all walks of life. What you do is take that draw, spin off of it and increase the frequency and impact of side venues like swim meets at the nanatorium.
I'll give you an example. My (new) community had a food and wine festival last weekend. It was so successful that there wasn't a room available even in the nearby small towns located 30 miles away! That includes all of the booked up B&B's which number over 400 here too. There were spin-offs, side attractions like a Muscle and Classic car auction, the golf course was loaded as were the shops, art shows, restaurants.....there were bands at the clubs and cafes, etc.
Think outside of the box ~
October 28, 2009
7:55 a.m.


714544 writes:
typical CC politics at work.....when friends come over from houst/sa/ anywhere else...in txs...Im constantly reminded of how pathetic our "sleepy little village" is....and it shall remain so till the council grows some...and make a "real decision"....



Fireboy writes:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject. 
PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
October 28, 2009
7:37 a.m.


Dude writes:
The Brass plan was exposed for what it was, a nearly free permanent home for a Hockey team that has never quite made it in all these years.
Shame on council for falling for that to begin with!
Now keep your promise! Mayor, council, you PROMISED action!!!!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!
October 28, 2009
7:40 a.m.


LadyVulcan writes:
For God's sake, developers are going to STOP presenting opportunities to the city! Every idea gets shot down, but no better ones take their place.
THIS is the kind of thing that makes graduates leave Corpus Christi. Why stay in a town with no growth and few jobs when you could move someplace like Houston or Austin, where things ACTUALLY HAPPEN?
October 28, 2009
7:44 a.m.


Riptide writes:
Tear this eye sore down. Enough already with this mess. It's been going on much to long.
October 28, 2009
7:47 a.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
in response to Fireboy:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject. 
PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That is a perfect example of small town thinking regarding the use of resources, improving the tax base and infrastructure, etc.
In fact, I think this nearsighted idea for such a minority interest is all wet lol. Brass' plan would have attracted all kinds of people from all walks of life. What you do is take that draw, spin off of it and increase the frequency and impact of side venues like swim meets at the nanatorium.
I'll give you an example. My (new) community had a food and wine festival last weekend. It was so successful that there wasn't a room available even in the nearby small towns located 30 miles away! That includes all of the booked up B&B's which number over 400 here too. There were spin-offs, side attractions like a Muscle and Classic car auction, the golf course was loaded as were the shops, art shows, restaurants.....there were bands at the clubs and cafes, etc.
Think outside of the box ~
October 28, 2009
7:55 a.m.


714544 writes:
typical CC politics at work.....when friends come over from houst/sa/ anywhere else...in txs...Im constantly reminded of how pathetic our "sleepy little village" is....and it shall remain so till the council grows some...and make a "real decision"....
October 28, 2009
8:17 a.m.


gino65 writes:
in response to mexicatl6#401467:
Congratulations to Ray Madrigal for his and his organization's efforts to save the coliseum. That is civil participation at its best. We should serious consider the Olympic Swimming option and good developoment. Privatizing the best real estate in Corpus Christi is bad for the public. It should be used for the public's benefit, not private individuals and corporations who would charge us for the use of our own resources.
So which unfunded option do you want? Madrigal wants to restore it so we will have two venues losing money. The Olympic Swim option gives away the land and building on top of costing more than the Brass deal. Make sure you are ready to vote for a bond to fund this.
October 28, 2009
8:26 a.m.


JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to mexicatl6#401467:
Congratulations to Ray Madrigal for his and his organization's efforts to save the coliseum. That is civil participation at its best. We should serious consider the Olympic Swimming option and good developoment. Privatizing the best real estate in Corpus Christi is bad for the public. It should be used for the public's benefit, not private individuals and corporations who would charge us for the use of our own resources.
Oh please. Madrigal was just trying to stir up the pot just like the people mentioned in Sunday's article who were wanting to stop this thing. The "Club" accomplished their goal AGAIN.
October 28, 2009
8:27 a.m.


rbubp writes:
I'm not from CC. I've been here watching for a little while.
I am astounded you have put up with this sort of incompetence for so long. You have an amazing location that 98% of the rest of the world would kill for, and you don't know what to do with it. Well, Howdy Doody above is right--you need to start just about anywhere as long as it's a huge change, because small changes aren't going to cut it at this point.
Ice skating and hockey are great for the local residents, but tourists will have to come for other things...the Columbus ships, a better downtown, a boardwalk and/or a pier, a freaking golf course, a waterpark (not all of it has to go downtown).
I'm amazed at the disconnect in understanding that increased revenues equal increased tax revenues from OUTSIDERS. You help pay for it now, it yields to being able to pay for things later, like better roads and schools. What is it this city so afraid of?
October 28, 2009
8:29 a.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
Dumb move Council. Ya blew another opportunity. Hey Corpus, when ya gonna stop flipping buggars at peeps that wanna believe in ya? Stupid is as stupid does.
The following would be fittin' for this Council and City:
"If you're so smart, how come you aint rich?"
October 28, 2009
8:30 a.m.


Ag4Life writes:
I've really supported everything Joe Adame has done up until now. He set a timetable for a decision to be made and even removed himself from the discussion process to avoid a conflict of interest perception.
On the news last night, he mentioned that he was dissappointed in the outcome and said he will review their legal position in hopes that he could reconnect with Brass in the negotiations.
Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules? You set the timetable and the rules for engagement. Now live with it. The next step should be to tear the coliseum down. Joe, don't reneg on your commitments like your predecessor did. Take your lumps and move on.
October 28, 2009
8:44 a.m.


ctx39441#331813 writes:
in response to 1callerblogger:
I am originally from CC born and raised. Moved to Houston 20 years ago. I was fortunate to move back to CC for a year in an employment contract position. I lived on the 12th floor of a condo overlooking the beautiful beach and bay. I was really embarassed when friends and family came to visit because the coliseum was the landmark. "Turn at the old dilapidated building with the torn up green roof". I never mentioned the "haunted looking", empty county courthouse. What is also a major eyesore is all the empty concrete spaces from former car lots, building foundations, failed businesses, etc. My unprofessional, humble opinion is tear the poor thing down. Excavate it and ask the owners of the other empty concrete pastures to do the same. Plant those lots in nice greenery, just grass would do, and that would go a long way, inexpensively, for those landowners after tax breaks, to at least dress up the Shoreline area displaying some "green" for the tourists that CC's economy relies so strongly on. I think that I spelled everything right. My "checks" screwed.
Your comments make a LOT of good sense. I might add clean up the garbage along the waterfront. Wave action banging garbage against the steps on shoreline is disgusting.
October 28, 2009
8:49 a.m.


weatherchick writes:
I guess we will have to say goodbye to the IceRays,now.
October 28, 2009
8:54 a.m.


TheViking writes:
Well there goes the Ice Rays. We actually have a professional sports team here for 10 years but without a place other than the ABC to practice and play they will have to find a new home. They CAN NOT finacially survive at the ABC. They can not draw a steady crowd large enough for such a venue. Now we have an eye sore and we will be loosing a source of intertainment in a year. And people wonder why CC looses buisness. NO ONE here can make a decision! They are always changing thier minds. You CAN NOT make absolutly eveyone happy, you just need to make a decision that will help the city and STICK TO IT. CC will not grow because what buisness in its right mind will want to come here. We don't even take care of the ones we have (Whataburger, the IceRays). Who will be the next ones on thier way out, Stripes?
October 28, 2009
8:58 a.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
in response to Ag4Life:
I've really supported everything Joe Adame has done up until now. He set a timetable for a decision to be made and even removed himself from the discussion process to avoid a conflict of interest perception.
On the news last night, he mentioned that he was dissappointed in the outcome and said he will review their legal position in hopes that he could reconnect with Brass in the negotiations.
Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules? You set the timetable and the rules for engagement. Now live with it. The next step should be to tear the coliseum down. Joe, don't reneg on your commitments like your predecessor did. Take your lumps and move on.
You said it well, "Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules?"
In a roundabout way you made an excellent point, it's all about trust. There is no honor or boundaries in this town, anything goes and the loyalty resides with The Group in charge.
Do you think anyone dealing with this City has one inkling of trust left? I'm talking Bayfront Associates back in the 80's, Landry's, Brass, and how many more as the tawdry theatrics play out, witness how Smith and Escobar were handled?
For months I blogged, warning Brass regarding these nitwits and how they do biz. Guess they understand now. Shame they had to learn the hard way, even saying publicly that they would do what it takes to please the Council. Whew!
October 28, 2009
9:11 a.m.


JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to HowdyDoody:
You said it well, "Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules?"
In a roundabout way you made an excellent point, it's all about trust. There is no honor or boundaries in this town, anything goes and the loyalty resides with The Group in charge.
Do you think anyone dealing with this City has one inkling of trust left? I'm talking Bayfront Associates back in the 80's, Landry's, Brass, and how many more as the tawdry theatrics play out, witness how Smith and Escobar were handled?
For months I blogged, warning Brass regarding these nitwits and how they do biz. Guess they understand now. Shame they had to learn the hard way, even saying publicly that they would do what it takes to please the Council. Whew!
Mayor Adame's decesion to abstain from the process was a HUGE mistake. Why he backed down on this is mind boggling? It was a chance to stair down some of these people that are behind the anti growth movement.
I want the council people who voted against this and gave us another bloody nose to be exposed. Thanks to the Caller Time for at least giving us some clues in that Sunday article about who the pupet masters are. Some of us have long know who they are, but at least the public at large know sees who pulls the strings and decided what Corpus can and cannot have. If it doesn't help their interests (IE pocketbook and real estate portfolio) did they will use misinformation and lies to kill it like "Don't let them steal our beach." Or "Don't let them steal our bayfront." Their fingerprints are all over killing progress in this city and as a result, we pay for it today with poor infrastructure, the brain drain, etc.
Once upon a time, people from Corpus northward used to laugh at Valley and Laredo for being the "Last Frontier." I know first hand because I lived down there before it started growing and used to hear the talk up here because I had relatives and friends who lived up here. It's done a total 180 and now Corpus is that "Last Frontier" and they now laugh at us! Sad indeed.
October 28, 2009
9:14 a.m.


ndcincc writes:
in response to Fireboy:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject. 
PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Dont get your hopes up too high, the council will just find and excuse not to do that either. I knew they would not follow thru on the Brass deal, it was just too good to be true. i just wish they would do something with that eyesore. It's been sitting there just deteriorating for too long.
October 28, 2009
9:28 a.m.


mwbeyer777#232558 writes:
No doubt the wonderful city council runs off another project. Doesn't anyone else see a problem here? Who turns away developments like this? NOONE will ever want to work with this city. They will learn their lesson when CC becomes Detroit of Texas.
October 28, 2009
9:38 a.m.


ag84blue12 writes:
Tear it down
October 28, 2009
10 a.m.


60texan#713155 writes:
Why do I somehow believe that it will wind up in the hands of Spohn Hospital or someone else conncected with medicine?
I guess because the medical field has all the money. The republicans special interest group.
I guess because they already have bayfront domination.
I guess because they are the only ones who have built anything new in the downtown bayfront area for about twenty years.
October 28, 2009
10:05 a.m.


keepitsmiling12 writes:
I firmly believe that both plans are great for that part of town. The swimming center does offer an Olympic training tie in and thus, I feel gives the city a potentially better long range use of the facility. There are huge empty lots behind and to the right of the Coliseum. Why is it that those without any business conflicts on the council don’t offer incentives for buying and building those lots? I know that those are privately listed but, you cant tell me that some incentive cant be offered to the Brass project for their venture. That type of project is needed to infuse more of the right type of people living downtown. Young renters who will take advantage of the off the ground then that is a great fit for that area. We need to strike a balance between tourist and local growth for downtown.
Most on the council are successful and enlightened individuals. Why is this concept so hard to grasp? The Southside can sprawl onto to field after field and they cant find a simple plan to develop a couple of blocks. Is it greed? Lack of common sense?
Im glad they don’t run A/M CC. The A/M system is had really added and is adding some of the best construction in the area on that campus. They have a first rate performing arts center and the academic buildings being built currently are really transforming the look of the campus for the better. Their growth and progressive move forward can only benefit Corpus Christi…..I just wish it would mirror Corpus Christi.
October 28, 2009
10:22 a.m.


PABZ writes:
Tear it down tomorrow! It was ugly when build and still ugly site. Lets move forward with new worthy projects build for the good of all. Build something to last!
October 28, 2009
10:24 a.m.


Lugnut writes:
Just tear the thing down. I was all in favor of the Brass deal but this is WAY past ridiculous. We can't decide on ANYTHING and I'll be happy to tell the council member that voted no that they're worthless and the reason Corpus will NEVER progress. Look what San Antonio did with a little river and we have all of this natural beauty and it goes to waste.
October 28, 2009
10:30 a.m.


acetsar writes:
Grow some balls! Put a little picture on a rock and be happy. Remember to show the new Coliseum back then. Remember we are the main area for people in San Ant. to go fishing to have fun by the water. Main port to San Ant. If the people in council are waiting because they want more money in there pockets, people of Corpus will find out. So dumb asses lets build are city and clean are city and HAVE SOMEONE EASY PAY (BRASS) or A new planner!! AcE
October 28, 2009
10:33 a.m.


hizzo7#714905 writes:
you know the inner discussions with the brass people was nothing but a show they wanted for the city to foot the bill for their project wish people would be made aware of those inner disscussions they wanted to spend nothing out of their pockets wanted the city to give them expenses for them if they would have to pay for fixing or upgrading and anything over 5000.00 dollars the city would have to pay for yes we want to improve that area but we taxpayers should not foot the bill tear it down green space build the area behind the collisum that privately owned apts. whatever but those owners would do that. the vote was and is correct move foward tear down the coll.and start to spend the 13 million bond money we voted for to improve that area then you can see where the interest will be to build from the properties that are owned by private citizens behind and around that area
October 28, 2009
10:34 a.m.


theyoungs#321845 writes:
Gentleman from the OLYMPIC swim association: "We came here and it was like, 'So? Show us the money. Who are you?'" he said. " I don't think we were prepared for that. We are now." Wow, how professional of the city council! A national swim center could be a huge thing for that dumpy city. Investment firms would buy, build and improve the surrounding property.
But that's the problem with some council members. It's all about money or personal financial gain, but they have no vested interest in doing anything for that city except holding up progress. Get em' out of there! Do something productive for a change. First and foremost, quit releasing water from Lake CC until Choke Canyon is empty too! It's sole purpose was to feed Lake CC with water to maintain consistent levels, and it hasn't happened once. Choke Canyon Res. holds 3 times the capacity of water than does Lake CC, and it is full.
October 28, 2009
10:41 a.m.


Lugnut writes:
Nope, we don't want to improve the area, we don't want to spend any money, we don't want anyone to make any money off the deal, we don't to get off our fat rear ends to appreciate the beauty we have, we don't like change, we don't want to be like the other guys, we don't want to block our view of ANYTHING, we don't want ferris wheels, but other than that we're open to anything else and I'm sure ALL of Corpus Christi will get behind the new idea...100%. Yeah, right.
October 28, 2009
10:54 a.m.


cavranger60#449976 writes:
So glad I moved out of Corruptus back in 93!! I see it has not changed!! The city counsel of fair-the--the wells is still intact!! So nice to sit at the river walk in San Antonio and watch the tourists pour their money at the restaraunts and bars. I have heard several tourists come back from Corruptus, "oh the bayfront is so awful...that rotting building by the bridge.. and that big building with green rotting roof!!" I am not making this up..except for the beach at padre island..I think corruptus would fade away!!
October 28, 2009
11:08 a.m.


dc writes:
How embarassing it is for us living in CC. They keep asking for bids and ideas...why??? so they can just have a reason to meet for coffee and donuts and shoot down every idea/bid. Then have the gull to tell us it was for our good of the city!! 
Its a darn shame that the Valley and SA are the ones reaping the rewards of $$$ going their way. They are the ones laughing and thanking us at the same time. 
Now...does anyone think another contractor will spend hours on working on bids/sales pitches just so we can tell them...no...our track record speaks for itself. 
As for Ray Madrigal...is he or the GI forum going to hand over the money to fix the coliseum or the ones who signed the petition..are you all willing to spend your weekends fixing it up? I think not...
Enough is enough...our council and the few old folks will never allow CC to move forward. They don't like change but yet wonder why our youth are leaving, why the business are closing down, why we don't have more tourist, why the big companies are leaving, why, why, why...
All I know is that i encourage my children to live somewhere else once they finish school. This will be the only way they will have a chance for a better future...
October 28, 2009
11:24 a.m.


cavranger60#449976 writes:
in response to dc:
How embarassing it is for us living in CC. They keep asking for bids and ideas...why??? so they can just have a reason to meet for coffee and donuts and shoot down every idea/bid. Then have the gull to tell us it was for our good of the city!! 
Its a darn shame that the Valley and SA are the ones reaping the rewards of $$$ going their way. They are the ones laughing and thanking us at the same time. 
Now...does anyone think another contractor will spend hours on working on bids/sales pitches just so we can tell them...no...our track record speaks for itself. 
As for Ray Madrigal...is he or the GI forum going to hand over the money to fix the coliseum or the ones who signed the petition..are you all willing to spend your weekends fixing it up? I think not...
Enough is enough...our council and the few old folks will never allow CC to move forward. They don't like change but yet wonder why our youth are leaving, why the business are closing down, why we don't have more tourist, why the big companies are leaving, why, why, why...
All I know is that i encourage my children to live somewhere else once they finish school. This will be the only way they will have a chance for a better future...
I could not have said it better!! There has never and probably will never be anything for the youth there!! Unless you are in the oil or tourist business.. their is nothing for the young kids!! That is why they go to college and end up living in San Antonio, Austin or Houston!!! And the markets for employment are much better!!
October 28, 2009
11:25 a.m.


gymratt81 writes:
A am just really amazed by this city. Finally someone comes in that wants to do something with the Colisum. Get approved by city, then weeks later turn it down. If this city ever wants to grow it has to make up its mind about something. Other than handing out money for people to study it $100,000 of our money has been invested in all of this. Brass has some great idea's. I myself was not excited about public apartments being involved with this. Myself I told one of the owners at the City Council meeteing my idea for apartments. Contract them to the local sports teams that are here. IceRays, Hooks make these teams sign longterm lease. Thats a simple cure to that problem. The other problem I had is this project went from 29acres down to 9 and city council is saying that Brass didn't present everything back to them in barely over a month. But yet the Colisum has been sitting there VACANT since the last people in it the Katrina victims destoyed the inside and then lotters strip every last piece of copper is gone. So come on give Brass alittle more time to revise there plans. The city sure worked really hard to get Wateraburger Field here work hard to give someone else a chance. I am a IceRays fan, and would love to see this building happen and have a place to go ice skating at . So come on and do something with the building..A swimming pool is not the answer..
October 28, 2009
11:39 a.m.


SouthTexas writes:
in response to gymratt81:
A am just really amazed by this city. Finally someone comes in that wants to do something with the Colisum. Get approved by city, then weeks later turn it down. If this city ever wants to grow it has to make up its mind about something. Other than handing out money for people to study it $100,000 of our money has been invested in all of this. Brass has some great idea's. I myself was not excited about public apartments being involved with this. Myself I told one of the owners at the City Council meeteing my idea for apartments. Contract them to the local sports teams that are here. IceRays, Hooks make these teams sign longterm lease. Thats a simple cure to that problem. The other problem I had is this project went from 29acres down to 9 and city council is saying that Brass didn't present everything back to them in barely over a month. But yet the Colisum has been sitting there VACANT since the last people in it the Katrina victims destoyed the inside and then lotters strip every last piece of copper is gone. So come on give Brass alittle more time to revise there plans. The city sure worked really hard to get Wateraburger Field here work hard to give someone else a chance. I am a IceRays fan, and would love to see this building happen and have a place to go ice skating at . So come on and do something with the building..A swimming pool is not the answer..
If a swimming pool is not the answer perhaps the same could be said that redeveloping this property around a sports team is not either.
October 28, 2009
11:41 a.m.


gymratt81 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
400 permanent jobs-gone
1,500 temporary jobs-gone
$90 million development-gone
Chris Adler, John Marez, Mark Scott and Nelda Martinez are a disgrace to Corpus Christi.
I'm hearing closer to 600 permanent job.
2500 temporary jobs for close to 2yrs and as 
a unemployed construction worker was really excited when Brass was the winner. Cause bet the same people not wanting this project are the same that don't want the new refinery on the northside of ship channel. Just give it to Brass !!!!!
October 28, 2009
11:43 a.m.

CoolBeans writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
October 28, 2009
11:53 a.m.


gymratt81 writes:
in response to cuellar_6#715527:
It is a no wonder when kids finnish high school or graduate from either Del Mar or A&M-CC they get on I-37 and get out of Corpus Christi. They know there is no oppritunity here.
Honestly I would have liked someone to rebuild the Coliseum cause events at the ABC are such a rip off. Plus I know the Hockey games and the rodeo were better there.
I totally agree with you when our kids get out of school IH-37 is there first trip. There is no work in this town, cause no companies want to come here and deal with city council. When someone does try to do something old people come out of the wood work to stop. If you want small town living go to Robstown cause the people that are trying to stop the growth of new companies, entertanment. Don't work cause there are retired and all they do is sit at home anyway. I wish I could print all these response and drop them on the Councils desk and let them read them.
October 28, 2009
11:54 a.m.


SouthTexas writes:
in response to Ag4Life:
I've really supported everything Joe Adame has done up until now. He set a timetable for a decision to be made and even removed himself from the discussion process to avoid a conflict of interest perception.
On the news last night, he mentioned that he was dissappointed in the outcome and said he will review their legal position in hopes that he could reconnect with Brass in the negotiations.
Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules? You set the timetable and the rules for engagement. Now live with it. The next step should be to tear the coliseum down. Joe, don't reneg on your commitments like your predecessor did. Take your lumps and move on.
What I saw on the evening news last night was very disappointing. The right thing to have done was be supportive of his council. They voted and it's time to move on. Find out if the swim center project is real or if it's another deal that won't work like the Brass proposal. If it's another fantasy project then tear it down so you move on to address bigger issues.
October 28, 2009
noon


CarpeDiem writes:
A lot of talk about young people not having much to do, places to work, nothing to look forward to, moving out, moving on.
Wife and I sat down last night and had a long talk. At this time, it goes beyond just youth and this "old fart" can truly say that he is all "fished out" and is seriously considering any and all other options.
Comes a point when you just have to say "I'm done" and cut your losses and I believe that we as a family have reached that point in our lives. This is not solely as a result of this one vote in the Council but as a cumulative effect, the direction and/or lack of direction. Who are we? Where are we? What are we doing? Where are we going? How are we going to get there? Why aren't we there yet?
As I reflect on whether it has been a good fight or even a battle worth fighting, the thought occurs to me that it never has been a fair fight, the decisions had once again been made and it would appear that the final decision for us was signed, sealed and delivered on October 27th, 2009.
October 28, 2009
12:04 p.m.


gymratt81 writes:
in response to cc_webdog#243583:
The Olympic swim training center is the best fit for our proud city. Not too hot, not too cold, just right. All of their quoted statements lead me to believe they know what they are doing.
REALLY????? I was there the night they made there bid. Was not impressed, they could not say how the pools would be built "above ground or below ground. They were not very profesinal at all. When your making a bid for a nearly 100million dollar job you have your stuff together. They had 2 people that supported them. we have a swimming center off of Saratoga that horrible and all independent High School are building there own pools. Michael Phelps isn't gonna come if you build it.
October 28, 2009
12:20 p.m.


SouthTexas writes:
in response to gymratt81:
I'm hearing closer to 600 permanent job.
2500 temporary jobs for close to 2yrs and as 
a unemployed construction worker was really excited when Brass was the winner. Cause bet the same people not wanting this project are the same that don't want the new refinery on the northside of ship channel. Just give it to Brass !!!!!
There was not going to be a $90 million development. Just because someone says it or you read it does not make it true. Otherwise we would have two additional malls, at least two water theme parks and quite a few other projects that were proposals. Proposals and bankable deals are not the same. Developers and others try to put together deals but they are not always able to get the deal to work. Brass could not commit to doing a development of that size there. All they could do is say that was going to be what they attempted to do. That's the way it works.
October 28, 2009
12:27 p.m.


JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to gymratt81:
I'm hearing closer to 600 permanent job.
2500 temporary jobs for close to 2yrs and as 
a unemployed construction worker was really excited when Brass was the winner. Cause bet the same people not wanting this project are the same that don't want the new refinery on the northside of ship channel. Just give it to Brass !!!!!
Sorry about your situation.
Go ask the people in this Sunday article that can be found on here for a job.
They are the ones who used the four on the council to kill it. Start from name #1 in this article and go down the line. Ask them since they know what's best for Corpus, find a way to keep you here. These people in this article disgust me beyond belief.
I wasn't attached to Brass plan as it was originally presented and would have been fine with the swim center. But the whole concept of doing something new down there to attract commerce is what is needed, so I was OK in the end with Brass. My main concern is this further gives Corpus a bad rap as far as welcoming business and empower those people even more in Sunday's article to rule over this city with almost a type of silent tyranny. We had a chance to take advantage of something not too many cities are doing now with the current economy and get some new investments and jobs. Where in the heck does that put us when the economy comes back? In a hole like we were when the economy was humming along and the places like the RGV, San Antonio, Laredo, etc were booming. It's disgusting those few people in this town are allowed so much power! Rise up!!
October 28, 2009
12:29 p.m.


PayOffCreditCards writes:
The regional Olympic training center concept ... New impact dollars ... beautiful parklands that can remain for public use ... improvements that can be made for the general public good as authorized years ago by VOTERS... not to worry, not to worry, a viable project will be forthcoming.
October 28, 2009
12:30 p.m.


gymratt81 writes:
in response to Dude:
The Brass plan was exposed for what it was, a nearly free permanent home for a Hockey team that has never quite made it in all these years.
Shame on council for falling for that to begin with!
Now keep your promise! Mayor, council, you PROMISED action!!!!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!
I wanna know how you figure almost free home for the IceRays. The owner of the Rays was paying for all the construction on the ice rink. When they pay almost $10,000 a night to host a game. Why wouldn't they want a cheaper place to play and thats ther all year round. Not getting kicked out for Islander basketball, concerts ect. When they are the main contractor in the ABC. What would happen if the Islander baseball team told the Hooks they couldn't use Waterburger Field. Plus IceRays were already ready to sign a 15yr lease so its not free by any means !!!
October 28, 2009
12:38 p.m.


CoolBeans writes:
Thanks for removing my comment!!! What ever happen to my 1st amendment rights or are in tangles with these people?
October 28, 2009
12:45 p.m.


Ag4Life writes:
in response to PayOffCreditCards:
The regional Olympic training center concept ... New impact dollars ... beautiful parklands that can remain for public use ... improvements that can be made for the general public good as authorized years ago by VOTERS... not to worry, not to worry, a viable project will be forthcoming.
".....a viable project will be forthcoming"
Sure!
Just as soon as you get your credit cards paid off, right?
October 28, 2009
12:59 p.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
Would the last one out please turn off the lights.
October 28, 2009
1:16 p.m.


octomusangel writes:
Look up incompetence in dictionary and you will see a picture of:
Nelda Martinez
Chris Adler
John Marez
Mark Scott
I can't wait for the next election. Corpus should ban against these halfwits. Such a MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT. They obviously could care less about this community.
October 28, 2009
1:32 p.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
"I can't wait for the next election."
For what, more of the same from the next bunch of elected losers? Tbis place will never change.
What would really attract peeps to corpitos is a grouping at the bayfront bluff of busts representing the local holy trinity - Selena, Dr. Garcia, and Escobar who will guide this city to Nirvana.
October 28, 2009
2:43 p.m.


NagaSadhu writes:
Politics in Corpus Christi must create much STRESS among those involved.
STRESS is the cause of many psychological malfunctions that often times manifests as physical diseases.
An assumption would be that at the end of the day those involved in Corpus Christi politics probably find themslves lifting a bottle of Alcohol as the primary mood changer. Or, just maybe at one of the after hours business or social functions?
If the assumption is correct then perhaps those involved in Corpus Christi politics and the curious would help themselves health wise by contacting their state and national representatives to support "medical marijuana" in Texas. It would help the stress levels in Corpus Christi for sure. Easy on the Kidneys and livers too.
And, while they are at it they can signal their representatives that farming HEMP for all the by-products would also help Corpus Christi, Nueces County and the state of Texas.
October 28, 2009
2:47 p.m.


Mainenefan01#235469 writes:
I say we boot them all out next election and start again..stop re-electing the same un-able to get anything done or make a decision city council.
There isn't one of them worth their weight in spit as a leader. They have failed the city yet again.
Bulldoze the place and plant grass, because there isn't anyone who can meet the demands of Corpus Christi City politics.
Mr. Madrigal, we can afford to fix the dump up, besides there isn't anyone who is willing to make the decisions. The spineless jelly fish at city hall can just keep flopping on the floor wondering why businesses aren't just jumping at the opportunity to do business in CC.
You can't do business when the elected people of a city can't find their butts with both hands and a room full of mirrors.
October 28, 2009
2:58 p.m.


haceunano writes:
This is the way it is folks. Those of you that say "we're going to vote them out", "Just wait until the next election we're going to tear it up". Corpus Christi politics is the way it is. Those that have money made it beaucoup long time ago and they don't want nobody else to make money so that's why ain't nothing getting done barbara. You can give the City Council pay raises, full insurance coverage, and get the best City Manager in the world.......if these older boys don't want it to happen, it ain't going to happen, George. Even the money guy for the Icerays, has got enough jingwa to compete with those guys. So there, shut down this blog. Park the twin muffler BBQ pits in front of the Coliseum and sell those sandwiches.