Archive: Caller comment board on what went wrong with Brass negotiations

conveidt writes:
It's always the same story in every city. Developers/businessmen promise anything to "get" the deal, then do whatever they want to do and screw the city whenever possible. Corpus Christi is lucky it got out of this disaster.
November 1, 2009
1:35 a.m.


DJsTex3 writes:
Quit spending all our tax payers money, and tear it down and be done with this discussion!
November 1, 2009
2:43 a.m.


oswego18 writes:
Five years? Five. You have got to be kidding me. How can you not laugh at this? Amazing. I've lived in many cities, but this is a first.
November 1, 2009
4:54 a.m.


penname writes:
The city is lucky to have escaped the Brass deal. 
The company is over-extended and could not have pulled off what they promised. 
Their deal hinged on getting government money for the parking garage and on being able to build apartments. 
NOTHING was to be done with the Coliseum except to lease it out.
November 1, 2009
6:04 a.m.


AZ85138 writes:
Larry Elizondo and John Marez look like they have ZERO business savy.
Wow are you kidding me. No wonder these problems have been existing, these council members look like they should be working at J/C PENNY'S. Unbelievable.
November 1, 2009
7:17 a.m.


Riptide writes:
Question:
"What went wrong with the Brass deal?"
Answer:
Incompetent leaders in our city.
November 1, 2009
7:53 a.m.


diane#715068 writes:
If you're tired of waiting for your elected leaders to do what's best for this city, join GROW! CORPUS CHRISTI on Facebook.
We have grown to 2,000 members in 3 days.
It's clear what this community wants: Bring Brass Real estate back to the table and hammer out a deal.
No more waiting around. Let's take control of this issue and make a change!
Just type in GROW! CORPUS CHRISTI on Facebook and you'll find us. This is your chance to have a voice in the debate.
November 1, 2009
7:56 a.m.


Dude writes:
The only people in this city who want to see apartments and a parking garage on our park land are doing so in a last ditch effort to keep their Ice Raysz from failing. 
As for how real Brass is; they are only here for the free prime real estate.
An analogy:
Go to the store and fill your cart with expensive items. The Gleeful Grocer, who is having a less than stellar month follows you through the store imagining how great this checkout experience is going to be for him! Not only are you rich, but you are buying the good stuff he can't seem to move otherwise. When you get to the register, you look at him and say "here is a check for the case of beer you would have sold anyway, now you have 2 choices. Either take this out to my car and assume I'll come back when I get private funding, or the government comes through with my lone star card, or you can issue me a credit card right here and I swear I'll pay it back."
AS LONG AS WE ARE OFFERING OUR MOST PRIME REAL EASTATE FOR FREE, THE CON ARTISTS WILL COME!
MAKE IT A PARK FOREVER!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!
November 1, 2009
8:18 a.m.


Thinking4Myself writes:
I am so glad that the deal fell through, let's just tear it down and plant grass so we have a bigger park area and keep Corpus Christi's Bayfront the pristine beautiful place it deserves to be!. How dare the BRASS folks demand that we taxpayers, not only give up a piece of our precious Bayfront, but also contribute to their bottom line! It's about time, that our elected officials do the right thing!
November 1, 2009
8:37 a.m.


grande3#359803 writes:
One in the Realestate Business and has interst in that area and the the other one has interst with Ice Rays and still incompetent leaders in our city. Tear it down and stop wasting tax payers money
November 1, 2009
8:41 a.m.


lnstst8#314947 writes:
Tear the eysore Coliseum down. You should be ashamed to keep addressing this eyesore as a memorial to our Veterans. It sits there forgotten and ignored just like our Veterans. Have you gone down to the Valley...McAllen in partiular. Now that is a City with a real Council with no "flip-flopping" on growth. Have you seen the Memorial for it's Veterans? Corpus Christi will never mirror a City by the Sea image. This city is so boring with grafitti, gang riddled personality of it's own. Tear the Building down and decide in 20 years what to do with the empty space.
November 1, 2009
8:45 a.m.


southtexasdog writes:
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again?
Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out...
But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's)
yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market...
And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
November 1, 2009
8:54 a.m.


THIMK writes:
Anyone know how much money has been wasted on this issue?
My fathers is a WW2 vet. He's says the Memorial Coliseum is an insult to his dead buddies and it should be torn down. The fact that it has been so badly neglected speaks volumes.
November 1, 2009
8:56 a.m.


Pearl writes:
Garrett had his time to spitefully tear the MC down, and ***Personally spiteful political idiocy has been the BIG problem all along. DO NOT QUOTE, or listen to any of the OLD spiteful players!!! Cut them off completely.
Whether Brass started the power mongering games or not - This is not the school yard play ground. Very LIMITED quotes from Council members in this article. Tells me only the basics of LIMITED RESPECT are available. Glad the DISRESPECTFUL negociations were stopped DEAD, and hope it stays that way.
That said --- It is STUPID to pour good money after bad by spending money to tear a SOUND building down, and then PAY MORE to build something else.
It would cost as much to tear it down as it would to make it USABLE. The PUBLIC use of the ABC is going down hill - FOR factual REASONS. THE people NEED other options period.
Mr. Lange's offer sounds viable, and with WAY LESS (incentive) robbery of the taxpayer budgets - He should be provided the opportunity to INVEST in the MC. Willing, and MORE than ABLE period. IMMEDIATELY TOO!! I'll bet Garrett HATES the idea out of PERSONAL SPITE.
For those who fault Lange, and others for being SUPPOSEDLY rich - Get over yourselves!!! There are NO rich people living in, or around CC because ... Anyone who is ABLE is DISABLED by the FACT that there are NO VIABLE opportunities ALLOWED!!!
LOCAL success (DUH-RICH PEOPLE) is a MUST for ANY city (LIKE IT OR NOT IT IS A FACT), and in order to HAVE success - DUH - There has to be VIABLE opportunities. ESPECIALLY for those who HAVE MONEY!!!!!!!
I hope ALL of those judged as only being out for themselves - Get FILTHY RICH!!! CC NEEDS successful RICH people period!!! The LEADERSHIP of CC needs to stop the ***Personally spiteful politics (BASED ON NOTHING BUT DISRESPECT), and make THAT happen period.
November 1, 2009
8:59 a.m.


haceunano writes:
Looks like all were playing "Hardball". My opinion the City should refurbish the Memorial Coliseum and use it as it was used before for shows etc. Rent it to the Icecubes, but at the same cost as where they are now. We've squandered monies in other areas why not this one?
November 1, 2009
9:13 a.m.


mstevens1#281717 writes:
What went wrong? Mark Scott led some other idiots on the council to vote for what the people who control him to do,,,nothing. This city is a joke! Thank you Mark Scott for keeping Corpus Christi broke!
November 1, 2009
9:26 a.m.


iamme writes:
Ok here is the deal. The city council works for the taxpayers. The mayor works for the taxpayers. Everyone need to stand up to them and tell them to get off their duffs and do their job. If we want them to tear it down and leave the lot vacant then so be it. Call your city council rep and the Mayor and demand that they get to doing the job that we hired them for or we will fire them at the next election.
November 1, 2009
9:48 a.m.


jaze writes:
IT REALLY REPERSENTS THE VETERANS THEY TREAT US JUST LIKE THEY DO THE COLLOSIUM IF YOU THINK I AN LYING SPEND A DAY AT THE VA CLINIC ON OLD BROWNSVILLE. COMMOM SENSE TELL YOU TO CLOSE IT DOWN MOVE IT ON POST IN THE NAVAL HOSPITAL AND BRING IT UP TO MODERN STANDARD BUT NO BECAUSE OF POLITICS AND THEY KEEP IT OPEN TO PUSH PILLS AND AND TRAIN SUBPAR DRS UNTIL THE LEAVE AFTER ABOUT 6 MONTH i HAVE BEEN HERE 2 YEARS AND HAVE HAD 4 DOCTORS AND CURRENT DON'T HAVE ONE.
THAT BUILDING IS A GREAT MOMUMENT TO THE SOLDIERS OLD BROKE DOWN AND WORTHLESS WAITING FOR US TO DECAY AND FADE AWAY SO THE RICH GOOD OLD BOYS WHO REN THE CITY CAN BUILD ANOTHER GOLF COURSE. INSTEAD OF BUILDING A PLACE TO TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THE TOURIST TRADE AND PROVIDE REAL JOBS TO THE POOR HISPANIC,BLACK AND WHITE CITIZENS. A RETIREMENT PARIDISE FOR A BUNCH OF OLD MONEY GOOD OLD BOYS
November 1, 2009
9:54 a.m.


AZ85138 writes:
Regardless, something will happen soon.
I don't understand why Larry E. and John Marez would reject any new development. Any new development would lead to new growth. Especially the Brass Real estate project. This project was #1 or #2 out of the five proposals. They should of taken it!!
November 1, 2009
10:03 a.m.


jaze writes:
Not everyone: you!!! a party of one... need to speak out stop waiting on a group or a band of others. Voice your opinions and stop waiting. The few people with power know that the citizen is not going to do nothing but complain and while you comlpain they go to the golf course after they leave the BANK playing with your money. They got us so fooled that we say please let us pay for our own health care you keep the money even though we no there is no way in hell they will give it back to us. If we get 250 dollars you can bet its because they will get 250000 or more. meanwhile our school roads and self own businesses fail. How sad Bill Gates lost 10 billion this year now he is only worth 750 billion. 
Gas prices go down 10 dollars a barrel they drop the price at the pump a nickle after a few days. Yet when it goes up a dollar a barrel they raise the price at the pump 25 cent a gallon and we buy it....
November 1, 2009
10:09 a.m.


Gatekeeper writes:
Downtown Corpus Christi will never move forward its because of those old buildings and the coliseum many of those owners owe the county between $200,000 to $500,000 in Property Taxes even our Mayor Adame he owes close to $52,000 in property taxes. If the County collected these taxes I guess downtown could be fixed with the money generated from these taxes but no one has the Balls to collect these taxes because it might hurt there feelings? Some City council members set a good example don’t pay your property taxes but if we the citizens don’t pay we get our homes seized or auctioned. As for Brass it net annual sales is about $2.5 million where do you supposed Rodriguez will get the funds from. Tear down the Coliseum and old buildings and collect those property taxes.
November 1, 2009
10:26 a.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
IMO this says it all...and it is further proof that we need to FIRE our make believe City Manager and get some real leadership.
"Some council members said extending Brass’ deadline wouldn’t have made a difference. Councilman Larry Elizondo said the city should be blamed for reaching the deadline without a contract.
“We were eating away at their time because we kept changing the game,” Elizondo said. “We kept debating what we wanted. We were picking it apart instead of saying, ‘What can we do to make it work?’ ”
Until we have real leadership at the helm and by this I don't mean a Mayor and Council, I am talking about a real City Manager not a make believe "we gave you a title" type of fluff and bluff, then we stay in reverse gear.
IMO, the only fault with the Mayor and Council lies in not taking action to remove and replace someone who has no clue and failed to properly oversee proposals and negotiations. This was messed up since before the RFP's were advertised and it is all on Escobar.
November 1, 2009
10:48 a.m.


deweyfinn#243858 writes:
Demolish it, leave the area vancant, and I guarantee a developer will come around with a better proposal. In all that remains holy just tear it down!
November 1, 2009
11:18 a.m.


thirdcoast writes:
Keep public land for the public. If developers want to build near the bayfront, they can buy the land one block inland and build there. The bayfront belongs to the people and is park land.
November 1, 2009
12:16 p.m.


BeverlysMom writes:
If that land is left as public space then maybe that valuable land behind it will quit being dead car lots. I'm not interested in paying some out-of-towners to clog up my Bayfront.
November 1, 2009
12:47 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
" The Building Should Have Never Been Left To Deteriorate To It's Present State .Period .......... "
One dollar will get you ten dollars that it is still insured at an expense to the taxpayer . No one wants to put pressure on the contractor that replaced the roof in the first place .They also had some deed trouble on the south side of the parking lot .That in it's self was the deal breaker for that parcel of land that was leased to the city by the State or County in the first place ,Oh ,Yea , They knew along the land in question was going to be major sticking point . And in the second place there is a Master Plan that had been approved by your Bond Monies of 2008 . No one ever mentions these two major screw - ups and points of view .Why ?
Because as usual they wanted to change the way the publics 2008 Bond Election turned out. Someone seriously needs to re-check and Audit all of the R.F.P.s that are being granted by this Council .
The Green Space Master Plan that was voted on would be a nice addition to the Bay front .
GREEN SPACE VOTED FOR 2008
November 1, 2009
1:09 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
IMO this says it all...and it is further proof that we need to FIRE our make believe City Manager and get some real leadership.
"Some council members said extending Brass’ deadline wouldn’t have made a difference. Councilman Larry Elizondo said the city should be blamed for reaching the deadline without a contract.
“We were eating away at their time because we kept changing the game,” Elizondo said. “We kept debating what we wanted. We were picking it apart instead of saying, ‘What can we do to make it work?’ ”
Until we have real leadership at the helm and by this I don't mean a Mayor and Council, I am talking about a real City Manager not a make believe "we gave you a title" type of fluff and bluff, then we stay in reverse gear.
IMO, the only fault with the Mayor and Council lies in not taking action to remove and replace someone who has no clue and failed to properly oversee proposals and negotiations. This was messed up since before the RFP's were advertised and it is all on Escobar.
What is it with you any way ? First Ms,Leal is not up to your High Morals Standings now you seem to think that Mr, Escobar is not what you want in a City Manger .Most of these deals were already on the table before they got here .
You want proof ask my Buddy " Skippy " He will be more than gladly be willing to give you some 411 on this matter .The one that has no clue is in the Mirror looking Right Back at You . Mr Escobar is A fine A Gentleman you will ever meet and speak too . I , Know I , Have met him and done business with him and found him to be so Very Dedicated to his Job .
You have been going around being a bit pushy lately .Take your time to see all sides of the problem before you go off on a witch hunt .
Happy Belated Holloweanie
November 1, 2009
1:15 p.m.


Esmael091956 writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
" The Building Should Have Never Been Left To Deteriorate To It's Present State .Period .......... "
One dollar will get you ten dollars that it is still insured at an expense to the taxpayer . No one wants to put pressure on the contractor that replaced the roof in the first place .They also had some deed trouble on the south side of the parking lot .That in it's self was the deal breaker for that parcel of land that was leased to the city by the State or County in the first place ,Oh ,Yea , They knew along the land in question was going to be major sticking point . And in the second place there is a Master Plan that had been approved by your Bond Monies of 2008 . No one ever mentions these two major screw - ups and points of view .Why ?
Because as usual they wanted to change the way the publics 2008 Bond Election turned out. Someone seriously needs to re-check and Audit all of the R.F.P.s that are being granted by this Council .
The Green Space Master Plan that was voted on would be a nice addition to the Bay front .
GREEN SPACE VOTED FOR 2008
PUBLIC NUISANCE... .remember this moment... it won't happen again... LOL
I agree with your comment! You aren't ranting - your comment is one of the most sensible you have made in a long time! I am all for the green space and TRUE memorial to those who have fought for our country and died for our freedom! The MEMORIAL COLISEUM is only a symbol of negative in our community and is no longer worthy of having the name "MEMORIAL".
November 1, 2009
1:16 p.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
The reason the Brass deal fell apart is the Community just wants the City council to resolve the Coliseum and public space issues in a way that make us proud of the bay front and not a giveaway to cronies of the Mayor just to give the owners of the Icerays a winfall. The Coliseum became a secondary issue while a massive project overwhelmed the original problem of what to do with the Coliseum. 
I have a little experience in the realm of public venues. For almost 12 years I managed the Richardson Auditorium. People would come to me all the time to book the auditorium to raise money for their charities, They always wanted a deal and they never considered the DMC cost of running the auditorium. Richardson Auditorium. Del Mar College would never provide me the seed money to book an event to earn money for the auditorium. Nor would or did they renovate the facility with todays profit making concessions, including, alcohol and food in mind. Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the auditorium never made a profit? When I exposed the safety issues and the deteriorating building the DMC administration threatened to tear down the auditorium. Fortunately, they realized the value of the auditorium to the DMC. 
The Coliseum has value and can be renovated for the publics benefit for not that much more money than tearing it down. The Coliseum could be divided into smaller spaces that the community wants and needs. Money making concessions should not be an issue. Not another ice rink which is expensive to operate and maintain and would not necessarily benefit the whole community. It could be managed to pay for itself if the seed money is provided to book events for the benefit of the Coliseum. This is the same argument I had with the Del Mar College administration and Board of Regents. It is an argument I lost which is why you will not find very much you want to see at the Richardson Auditorium. It is why the Richardson Auditorium is expensive for outsiders to book and only insiders get deals. 
The Coliseum could be booked in cooperation with the ABC and not in competition as it is done in many cities that have multiple venues.
The swim center is a whole other issue. It is a pro Olympic patriotic issue. It is not a Brass conglomeration. It would be an appropriate use of the Coliseum in that who could be against the USA Olympic teams utilizing the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. Not my first choice, but hey better than an ice rink. Imagine Corpus Christi as a permanent venue of hosting pre-Olympic events. Not just swimming. Maybe beach volleyball, Sailing, decathlon, etc. How could that be bad for Corpus Christi? How could an ice skating rink compare with that? I just don't get it? Where is the patriotism? Where is the Caller-Times patriotism? I realize there are always questions about these proposals? How could this not inspire our community and children? Where is the patriotism to support the USA Olympics to make this thing work?
November 1, 2009
1:27 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to Esmael091956:
PUBLIC NUISANCE... .remember this moment... it won't happen again... LOL
I agree with your comment! You aren't ranting - your comment is one of the most sensible you have made in a long time! I am all for the green space and TRUE memorial to those who have fought for our country and died for our freedom! The MEMORIAL COLISEUM is only a symbol of negative in our community and is no longer worthy of having the name "MEMORIAL".
Thank You ! I have been saying it a for a while the public does not want to know the truth .
Thanks LOL 5157
November 1, 2009
2:01 p.m.


OceanDriveSpeeder writes:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
This so SIMPLE !!
GOD Wants it TORN DOWN !!
Just DO IT !!
What is it about Corpus Christ Texas?
How can one community be so DUMB!
Tear the Damn thing down & Start Over !
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
November 1, 2009
2:07 p.m.


Hecho writes:
There is NOTHING "prime" about this property. This is not downtown Miami Beach. Secongly, we have a pernicious city council member in Mark Scott and his BBF John Bell who bow down to the likes of the greedy Loeb Family. Angel Escobar is the root of the problem. John Marez is a major wimp in this whole scenario. NOTHING will be the legacy of Mark Scott, Nelda Martinez, John Marez and Christ Adler. It is time for Joe Adame to man up.
November 1, 2009
2:38 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
What is it with you any way ? First Ms,Leal is not up to your High Morals Standings now you seem to think that Mr, Escobar is not what you want in a City Manger .Most of these deals were already on the table before they got here .
You want proof ask my Buddy " Skippy " He will be more than gladly be willing to give you some 411 on this matter .The one that has no clue is in the Mirror looking Right Back at You . Mr Escobar is A fine A Gentleman you will ever meet and speak too . I , Know I , Have met him and done business with him and found him to be so Very Dedicated to his Job .
You have been going around being a bit pushy lately .Take your time to see all sides of the problem before you go off on a witch hunt .
Happy Belated Holloweanie
Now, now....I know that you did not miss my post from a few days ago. When I am wrong, I apologize which is something that you have yet to learn. Cut and paste below was my apology to Ms. Leal....try reading it again:
"Before I go on, I must issue an apology. Ms. Leal, as much as I have criticized you on these boards, you and you alone are the one who has maintained a firm position on this issue during the entire debacle. I had watched and recorded the Council meeting and after listening to it again, I may not agree with your decision as it appears that your decision was based more on emotions than sound economics, at least you held your ground and were passionate about doing so".
On to Escobar..... no doubt a fine gentleman. On that point we agree. Does that make him a QUALIFIED City Manager? No, it does not.
Aprende las diferencias, there is a lot of difference between personal and professional qualifications. We hired Escobar at a high rate of pay to be a "professional" City Manager, not a "personal" nice guy.
November 1, 2009
2:43 p.m.


georgelopez writes:
the city council members who voted against the plan should be recalled. that would be an election where people would come out in great numbers. what a bunch of goofballs. they lied out their teeth. those same failed developers around town got to them either with the promise of some kind of financial reward. this should be a case that the state attorney general's office should look into because this was so blatant. and they all campaigned on being pro-growth. pro-b.s. is more like it.
November 1, 2009
5:11 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Now, now....I know that you did not miss my post from a few days ago. When I am wrong, I apologize which is something that you have yet to learn. Cut and paste below was my apology to Ms. Leal....try reading it again:
"Before I go on, I must issue an apology. Ms. Leal, as much as I have criticized you on these boards, you and you alone are the one who has maintained a firm position on this issue during the entire debacle. I had watched and recorded the Council meeting and after listening to it again, I may not agree with your decision as it appears that your decision was based more on emotions than sound economics, at least you held your ground and were passionate about doing so".
On to Escobar..... no doubt a fine gentleman. On that point we agree. Does that make him a QUALIFIED City Manager? No, it does not.
Aprende las diferencias, there is a lot of difference between personal and professional qualifications. We hired Escobar at a high rate of pay to be a "professional" City Manager, not a "personal" nice guy.
I hear what you are saying .Butt , Are you listening to what I am saying . If you were to ask Skip Noe what really transpired in these ventures you would come to the conclusion that there were already problems that were on going for more than a just a few years .Mr , Escobar was just at the wrong place at the wrong time .If we need to lay blame on someone it should be in ourselves for not demanding the obvious the production from the City's Staff who were coming up with these ridiculous proposals .
We spend millions of dollars in a Economic Development Board that has not done much but spend taxpayers monies on a advertising budget .
You want to find the guilty party look no further than the Staff at City Hall .
With out public involvement we do not stand a chance to succeed in our goals .
Help Wanted : 5157
November 1, 2009
5:36 p.m.


dwp007#715457 writes:
Memo to City Council: Nice job. Continue to do NOTHING. Why don't we turn the coliseum into an ancient ruins site? Fred and Barney would be proud. We might as well be living in Bedrock, anyway. What a cast of clowns.
November 1, 2009
5:39 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
I hear what you are saying .Butt , Are you listening to what I am saying . If you were to ask Skip Noe what really transpired in these ventures you would come to the conclusion that there were already problems that were on going for more than a just a few years .Mr , Escobar was just at the wrong place at the wrong time .If we need to lay blame on someone it should be in ourselves for not demanding the obvious the production from the City's Staff who were coming up with these ridiculous proposals .
We spend millions of dollars in a Economic Development Board that has not done much but spend taxpayers monies on a advertising budget .
You want to find the guilty party look no further than the Staff at City Hall .
With out public involvement we do not stand a chance to succeed in our goals .
Help Wanted : 5157
Now you are saying what I have been saying all along and you are acknowledging that Escobar is the problem. I don't need to go back to Noe. Noe is the past and Escobar is the present and the one who is running the zoo. When you write that to find the guilty party I need to look no further than the Staff at City Hall that is exactly what I said.
It is Escobar's fault that the screwups, very costly screwups in terms of time, money and effort, continue to happen because he still has not said the three magic words....YOU ARE FIRED to any of the people that messed this up since the beginning....there was the RFP issue, there was the parks issue, there is the parking issue, there is the issue that this incomplete proposal should have never come back before the City Council with unresolved issues.
How many chances do they get to get it right and they still got it wrong and the man in charge is Angel Escobar. He has had one chance, two chances and a third chance, he took no action so then that should leave the City Council demanding Escobar's resignation.
Sorry Bud, that's the way that it works when you fail to produce results and/or the people that you supervise continue to fail by committing what has turned into very costly and embarrasing errors.
November 1, 2009
5:54 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Now you are saying what I have been saying all along and you are acknowledging that Escobar is the problem. I don't need to go back to Noe. Noe is the past and Escobar is the present and the one who is running the zoo. When you write that to find the guilty party I need to look no further than the Staff at City Hall that is exactly what I said.
It is Escobar's fault that the screwups, very costly screwups in terms of time, money and effort, continue to happen because he still has not said the three magic words....YOU ARE FIRED to any of the people that messed this up since the beginning....there was the RFP issue, there was the parks issue, there is the parking issue, there is the issue that this incomplete proposal should have never come back before the City Council with unresolved issues.
How many chances do they get to get it right and they still got it wrong and the man in charge is Angel Escobar. He has had one chance, two chances and a third chance, he took no action so then that should leave the City Council demanding Escobar's resignation.
Sorry Bud, that's the way that it works when you fail to produce results and/or the people that you supervise continue to fail by committing what has turned into very costly and embarrasing errors.
Not exactly .What I am saying is they should have been let go along with Skippy . His staff is major part of the problem . Mr,Escobar can not just go in firing these people with Tenure .
Think about how many lawsuit we would be facing these are not Dummies they are smart and educated individuals .If you feel that strongly about it then go down to the public comment portion with your views .
I DARE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 1, 2009
6 p.m.


SouthTexas writes:
in response to georgelopez:
the city council members who voted against the plan should be recalled. that would be an election where people would come out in great numbers. what a bunch of goofballs. they lied out their teeth. those same failed developers around town got to them either with the promise of some kind of financial reward. this should be a case that the state attorney general's office should look into because this was so blatant. and they all campaigned on being pro-growth. pro-b.s. is more like it.
First none of what you said happened but just for fun what if the three that voted for Brass were the one's you were describing. Your wild accusation and characterization could just as easily be about the other group. 
Rather than typing on a computer why don't some of those who post these type things just run for office? That would require real effort though so I guess that is not going to happen.
November 1, 2009
6:06 p.m.


G_W_Vet writes:
Lets build a HEB there. We don't have nearly enough.
November 1, 2009
6:27 p.m.


Hecho writes:
One thing everyone agrees on is: FIRING INCOMPETENT STAFF, i.e. ANGEK ESCOBAR. I still say that Mark Scott and his cronies along with the weak and spineless (you know who you are) will go down in Corpus history as the reason that we will have a vacant hole instead of a thriving community project. Please, Joe, show some strength. You can do it!!
November 1, 2009
6:49 p.m.


HowdyDoody writes:
Stupid is a stupid does.
November 1, 2009
7:12 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
Not exactly .What I am saying is they should have been let go along with Skippy . His staff is major part of the problem . Mr,Escobar can not just go in firing these people with Tenure .
Think about how many lawsuit we would be facing these are not Dummies they are smart and educated individuals .If you feel that strongly about it then go down to the public comment portion with your views .
I DARE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fire them then, fire them now???? What's the difference? Tenure? Are you suggesting that they did not have tenure when Noe was fired so that would have been the moment to do it.
If you are correct, the person that would have been charged with that task would have been the Interim City Manager that replaced Noe. I think it was a fellow named Angel Escobar that was named Interim City Manager if memory serves me correctly. Escobar would have been doing the dirty deed then as he would be doing so now. Difference is that perhaps we might have saved some time, money and effort and done some positive things to enhance our tax base. Then again, that is only important to people who actually pay their property taxes.
Continuing to use your criteria one would suppose that they were less smart and less educated at that time so it would have been OK to let them go. Nothing has changed except the name on the City Manager door so if they were incompetent then are they any less incompetent now or less fire-able?
Lawsuits? I see, they invented lawsuits AFTER they fired Noe so the City would not have had to face one then but they would now. How interesting that you have that opinion.
By the way, I find it very disrespectful that you continuously refer to Noe as "Skippy". Somehow you always refer to Escobar as Mr. Escobar....please tell me that you are not really a racist, are you? Is that why you do this?
and LOL, LOL, LOL....."you dare me"? I suppose that next will come a "double dare me"...I stopped doing dares and double dares in about the second grade. For a fleeting moment I thought that we were having a semi intelligent conversation.
November 1, 2009
7:38 p.m.


bluegirlscout writes:
Public land should be kept for the public not used to soak the taxpayers and clog up the bayfront with parking garages and apartments for the very rich. The voters approved that land as a public park. Raze the Hut and give us a nice memorial park.
November 1, 2009
7:38 p.m.


mississippipimp7386#718561 writes:
this town is so beautiful but the truth is bad planning. in Austin Texas the old Mueller airport off airport blvd and I-35 was leveled and they built a whole other city on top of it. they did this in the last six years. now the coliseum is of historical value but we have spent the last ten years thinking what to do with that shoreline property. it's just old.
November 1, 2009
7:50 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
Why can't the city council take some time to examine other waterfront cities who used these sort of development projects to attract TOURISTS to their cities?
Corpus Christi needs some downtown development. However, a swimming center or IceRays arena isn't the answer. How many dollars will that actually bring in? Will it revitalize the downtown/waterfront area?
I truly believe that something needs to be done to attract visitors from the surrounding area into the downtown...as well as tourists to the city from San Antonio, Laredo, Northern Mexico and the Valley. If this is done effectively, the city could attract vacationers from Dallas, Austin or even the Midwest.
My solution? A "Memorial Plaza" area that will host an open air market, hip restaurants (like a Hard Rock, Bubba Gumps Shrimphouse, etc...), boardwalk walking area (with free, sign-up vending), coffeehouses, free outdoor entertainment (via a small pavilion) and some tactful tourist shops.
I personally think that Corpus Christi could EASILY create a "Pier 39" type of area. Such a place would attract quite a few locals from the city and surrounding towns, plus it would attract people (and their money) into the cities across Texas and the region. Not only would it fill the coffers of the downtown vendors (and city through tax revenue), but it would attract further development into the downtown/waterfront area.
The city needs to look at things that have worked elsewhere. While Corpus Christi may not be a major city, it has the potential of becoming a viable short-term vacation alternative.
Of course, we could simply let the waterfront area continue its decline into mediocrity. I don't think that any of the plans presented to (and by) the city were worth pursuing.
=)
November 1, 2009
8:17 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
...of course, the city could ask President Obama for some of that socialism-inspired "stimulus" money.
Then President Obama can blame former-President Bush for all of Corpus Christi's problems.
:-P
November 1, 2009
8:32 p.m.


cuellar_6#715527 writes:
Everything in Houston, DFW, Austin, and San Antonio that gets flushed down their toilets ends up in Corpus Christi.
November 1, 2009
9:05 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to Pearl:
Garrett had his time to spitefully tear the MC down, and ***Personally spiteful political idiocy has been the BIG problem all along. DO NOT QUOTE, or listen to any of the OLD spiteful players!!! Cut them off completely.
Whether Brass started the power mongering games or not - This is not the school yard play ground. Very LIMITED quotes from Council members in this article. Tells me only the basics of LIMITED RESPECT are available. Glad the DISRESPECTFUL negociations were stopped DEAD, and hope it stays that way.
That said --- It is STUPID to pour good money after bad by spending money to tear a SOUND building down, and then PAY MORE to build something else.
It would cost as much to tear it down as it would to make it USABLE. The PUBLIC use of the ABC is going down hill - FOR factual REASONS. THE people NEED other options period.
Mr. Lange's offer sounds viable, and with WAY LESS (incentive) robbery of the taxpayer budgets - He should be provided the opportunity to INVEST in the MC. Willing, and MORE than ABLE period. IMMEDIATELY TOO!! I'll bet Garrett HATES the idea out of PERSONAL SPITE.
For those who fault Lange, and others for being SUPPOSEDLY rich - Get over yourselves!!! There are NO rich people living in, or around CC because ... Anyone who is ABLE is DISABLED by the FACT that there are NO VIABLE opportunities ALLOWED!!!
LOCAL success (DUH-RICH PEOPLE) is a MUST for ANY city (LIKE IT OR NOT IT IS A FACT), and in order to HAVE success - DUH - There has to be VIABLE opportunities. ESPECIALLY for those who HAVE MONEY!!!!!!!
I hope ALL of those judged as only being out for themselves - Get FILTHY RICH!!! CC NEEDS successful RICH people period!!! The LEADERSHIP of CC needs to stop the ***Personally spiteful politics (BASED ON NOTHING BUT DISRESPECT), and make THAT happen period.
You make a lot of good points, but CC does not lack rich people -- they just don't spend their money here.
Tim Lang does and he should be applauded for it. But there are people on Ocean Drive worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and they just sit there in their little coccoons counting their money.
If Lang or anyone else wants to put their butt on the line for this God forsaken city, more power to 'em.
We should support them all the way!
November 1, 2009
9:16 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Why can't the city council take some time to examine other waterfront cities who used these sort of development projects to attract TOURISTS to their cities?
Corpus Christi needs some downtown development. However, a swimming center or IceRays arena isn't the answer. How many dollars will that actually bring in? Will it revitalize the downtown/waterfront area?
I truly believe that something needs to be done to attract visitors from the surrounding area into the downtown...as well as tourists to the city from San Antonio, Laredo, Northern Mexico and the Valley. If this is done effectively, the city could attract vacationers from Dallas, Austin or even the Midwest.
My solution? A "Memorial Plaza" area that will host an open air market, hip restaurants (like a Hard Rock, Bubba Gumps Shrimphouse, etc...), boardwalk walking area (with free, sign-up vending), coffeehouses, free outdoor entertainment (via a small pavilion) and some tactful tourist shops.
I personally think that Corpus Christi could EASILY create a "Pier 39" type of area. Such a place would attract quite a few locals from the city and surrounding towns, plus it would attract people (and their money) into the cities across Texas and the region. Not only would it fill the coffers of the downtown vendors (and city through tax revenue), but it would attract further development into the downtown/waterfront area.
The city needs to look at things that have worked elsewhere. While Corpus Christi may not be a major city, it has the potential of becoming a viable short-term vacation alternative.
Of course, we could simply let the waterfront area continue its decline into mediocrity. I don't think that any of the plans presented to (and by) the city were worth pursuing.
=)
This is the best idea I've ever heard about what to do with the bayfront -- and it's not rocket science -- just look at what EVERY WATERFRONT CITY in the country has done and copy that.
How hard can this be? Go find those developers and give them the damned land if they'll pony up.
The big problem is that CC has earned such a terrible reputation that much of corporate America won't talk to us.
Just look at how the city (that means you Garrett) treated Bob Rowling -- here is a hometown guy who tried to relocate Omni hotels corporate here when he bought the company. That ended in disaster, but he cared so much about this place that he gave it a shot. When he proposed a family-themed entertainment area where the MC is now, HE WAS LAUGHED AT.
And he's a freaking billionaire! We need to go hat in hand to guys like him, beg their forgiveness, and pledge our unyielding support if they'll come here.



November 1, 2009
9:21 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to bluegirlscout:
Public land should be kept for the public not used to soak the taxpayers and clog up the bayfront with parking garages and apartments for the very rich. The voters approved that land as a public park. Raze the Hut and give us a nice memorial park.
If people pay sales, property and every kind of tax for the use of 'public' land, where does the tax money go genius?
November 1, 2009
9:25 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
The reason the Brass deal fell apart is the Community just wants the City council to resolve the Coliseum and public space issues in a way that make us proud of the bay front and not a giveaway to cronies of the Mayor just to give the owners of the Icerays a winfall. The Coliseum became a secondary issue while a massive project overwhelmed the original problem of what to do with the Coliseum. 
I have a little experience in the realm of public venues. For almost 12 years I managed the Richardson Auditorium. People would come to me all the time to book the auditorium to raise money for their charities, They always wanted a deal and they never considered the DMC cost of running the auditorium. Richardson Auditorium. Del Mar College would never provide me the seed money to book an event to earn money for the auditorium. Nor would or did they renovate the facility with todays profit making concessions, including, alcohol and food in mind. Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the auditorium never made a profit? When I exposed the safety issues and the deteriorating building the DMC administration threatened to tear down the auditorium. Fortunately, they realized the value of the auditorium to the DMC. 
The Coliseum has value and can be renovated for the publics benefit for not that much more money than tearing it down. The Coliseum could be divided into smaller spaces that the community wants and needs. Money making concessions should not be an issue. Not another ice rink which is expensive to operate and maintain and would not necessarily benefit the whole community. It could be managed to pay for itself if the seed money is provided to book events for the benefit of the Coliseum. This is the same argument I had with the Del Mar College administration and Board of Regents. It is an argument I lost which is why you will not find very much you want to see at the Richardson Auditorium. It is why the Richardson Auditorium is expensive for outsiders to book and only insiders get deals. 
The Coliseum could be booked in cooperation with the ABC and not in competition as it is done in many cities that have multiple venues.
The swim center is a whole other issue. It is a pro Olympic patriotic issue. It is not a Brass conglomeration. It would be an appropriate use of the Coliseum in that who could be against the USA Olympic teams utilizing the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. Not my first choice, but hey better than an ice rink. Imagine Corpus Christi as a permanent venue of hosting pre-Olympic events. Not just swimming. Maybe beach volleyball, Sailing, decathlon, etc. How could that be bad for Corpus Christi? How could an ice skating rink compare with that? I just don't get it? Where is the patriotism? Where is the Caller-Times patriotism? I realize there are always questions about these proposals? How could this not inspire our community and children? Where is the patriotism to support the USA Olympics to make this thing work?
Who do you work for? A poor dude who lives in a box?
Oh that's right -- you're one of those who thinks he DESERVES a job because you were born and breathe air.
November 1, 2009
9:30 p.m.


agitator writes:
in response to dwp007#715457:
Memo to City Council: Nice job. Continue to do NOTHING. Why don't we turn the coliseum into an ancient ruins site? Fred and Barney would be proud. We might as well be living in Bedrock, anyway. What a cast of clowns.
HA!!!!!! That's hilarious! And a good point too.
Most of this town looks like Beirut anyway -- the coliseum certainly fits in.
November 1, 2009
9:37 p.m.


Esmael091956 writes:
I personally think a SUPER TARGET would be great there.... I mean, sheesh.... it's profitable.... would be a pseudo-grocery/retail store --- it would survive... LOL
Eventually, I will get that SUPER TARGET I am longing for.... McAllen has 3 of them.... it's insane how many businesses DO NOT come here....
November 1, 2009
9:58 p.m.


beachguy1982#712635 writes:
I am not from Corpus Christi, and this city absolutely embarrasses me. The city council is incompetent, as is the city that embraces their position over the mayor. Nothing ever gets done, and the city continues to be the least educated, poorest, and biggest enemy to its own well being. Companies wont come here because those running the show are too ignorant to understand how economy works. You cannot make steep demands as a city that has nothing to offer those seeking new business ventures.
I would love to see what should be "prime real estate" actually become what it could be worth. However until this city is smart enough to demand a new city charter mimicking the power structure of more successful governments (like Atlanta, San Antonio, Nashville, and Scottsdale) they will be doomed to power hungry politicians who are ever so clueless as to how to do what is truly beneficial for the patrons that inhabit this city.
November 1, 2009
10:13 p.m.


publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Fire them then, fire them now???? What's the difference? Tenure? Are you suggesting that they did not have tenure when Noe was fired so that would have been the moment to do it.
If you are correct, the person that would have been charged with that task would have been the Interim City Manager that replaced Noe. I think it was a fellow named Angel Escobar that was named Interim City Manager if memory serves me correctly. Escobar would have been doing the dirty deed then as he would be doing so now. Difference is that perhaps we might have saved some time, money and effort and done some positive things to enhance our tax base. Then again, that is only important to people who actually pay their property taxes.
Continuing to use your criteria one would suppose that they were less smart and less educated at that time so it would have been OK to let them go. Nothing has changed except the name on the City Manager door so if they were incompetent then are they any less incompetent now or less fire-able?
Lawsuits? I see, they invented lawsuits AFTER they fired Noe so the City would not have had to face one then but they would now. How interesting that you have that opinion.
By the way, I find it very disrespectful that you continuously refer to Noe as "Skippy". Somehow you always refer to Escobar as Mr. Escobar....please tell me that you are not really a racist, are you? Is that why you do this?
and LOL, LOL, LOL....."you dare me"? I suppose that next will come a "double dare me"...I stopped doing dares and double dares in about the second grade. For a fleeting moment I thought that we were having a semi intelligent conversation.
I had various dealings with Mr,Skip Noe , He unlike Mr , Escobar had a great sense of humor unknown to the public .So it is more of a joke between the both of us .Skip is a very wise man he also knew that the firing of certain individuals would hurt the city's reputation on the national level . He also left like our former police chief Bryan Smith with dignity to insure that the citizens of Corpus Christi would not suffer any more legal challenges than need be .These are Men of Honor .They with stood so much unwanted publicity for the sake of the city .
Now here is something you might not like hearing .Why is it that you want to dissect everybody else and see no wrong in your own posts . Well low and behold I did a little research on your past posts .Now let me see I did not FIND 1 post that was not aimed at a Hispanic in a positive way . I take some serious criticism for being so negative about things I post and sometimes I catch myself of being to hard on some people . Butt , I do research before I post something .What is your Excuse ? 
So let it be said , I did research on you found you to be a bit of a snob when posting on these subjects . We can all have views that we all do not agree on that my friend is the way of the world . Self control comes to mind .
This city does not want to face the truth that it is controlled by a select few of Good Ole Boy's .Join the club of the legal injustice that face our fair city .
Sorry , I call them as I see them .
Low and Fast ...................
November 1, 2009
11:24 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
Most of these proposals won't do much for the waterfront in terms of business.
A swim center? How will this be anything better than another Jehovah's Witness convention? It' won't bring much money or people in (swimmers and a few fans for a few meets). Plus, is there a contract that says that the Olympic Swimming team HAS be based there? Most of the swimmers are from the east or west coasts and practice at their universities. Do we really think that the cost of development (particularly, loss of the land) would be justified by the small income that it would generate?
Look, we don't need another spectator venue. The American Bank Center can hardly justify its existence. It keeps losing money.
We need something from this development that will attract local citizens who don't already come to the waterfront. We need something that will attract people from surrounding communities, or places like San Antonio, Laredo and Austin to choose Corpus Christi as a weekend getaway. A "swim center" won't do this.
A "Memorial Plaza" can work (in the spirit of "Pier 39")! You can destroy that ugly building and set up a plaza that will attract businesses and tourists to the downtown waterfront. This has been proven to work in areas that weren't known for their tourism...and it worked. Monterey, CA; Myrtle Beach, SC; Virginia Beach, VA; and other towns similar in size to Corpus have viable and attractive "Pier 39" type of waterfront attractions that have revitalized their downtowns and generated lots of tax income.
There are plenty of trendy "anchor" restaurants that would probably want to locate here (like Bubba Gump's Shrimp, Rainforest Cafe or other nice coffee shops and trendy restaurants). When it is combined with free "sign up" sidewalk or pavilion entertainment, an open-air seller's market (including fresh seafood and farm items), a walking area, and live music -- the Corpus Christi waterfront can become attractive to outsiders. It will draw people (and their money) to the area -- which should be the goal of the city anyway.
Someone in the City Council should google Pier 39 in order to get some ideas. They could also google similar-sized cities from around the US and see what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns.
*sigh
Instead, we have people on the council who actually WANT to keep that decrepit mockery of an eyesoar in use. It was ugly when it was built...and it has only gotten uglier over time. It also wastes a lot of space on what should be prime acreage along the downtown Corpus Christi waterfront.
City Council, ask yourself: What kind of people do you want to attract to the downtown? What kind of income are you trying to create? Are these hasty proposals the best way to accomplish this? Have you considered alternatives?
November 1, 2009
11:47 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
How many people actually show up to an IceRays' game...how much city income is generated...and is it justified enough to renovate that ugly building?
Wow. Is the City Council basing EVERY bid on a requirement of keeping that unbelievably ugly and useless building that is stretched perpendicularly across the property, thereby dividing it?
Step 1: Tear down the building. It isn't worth saving...and represents poor architecture mingled with bad decisions.
Step 2: Decide just WHAT it is that you want to accomplish with a development project. Do you want visitors only from Corpus Christi? Do you want visitors from the surrounding area? Do you want visitors from San Antonio, Laredo and Austin? All of the above? Are you trying to generate attractions that can have a domino effect on other downtown businesses? Are you trying to generate tax revenue while beautifying and revitalizing the downtown waterfront?
Step 3: NOW that you have a goal, research other cities...and what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns (google Pier 39, please). After months of research, discuss these possibilities with one another.
Step 4: Come up with plans for the entire campus along the downtown waterfront by marketing this business opportunity to major developers of similar projects. Remember: If this is going to be developed in steps, build the ANCHOR attractions first.
Step 5: Once all proposals have been received, discuss them in a public setting. Get input from the people of Corpus Christi -- since you should be accountable to them anyway (rather than doing these things behind closed doors...or by limiting the alternatives).
Step 6: Narrow it down to three choices. Weigh the costs and benefits (and long term benefits) accordingly...and use wisdom with the choice.
Step 7: FINALLY, award the development!
*It seems that, right now, the City Council is still stuck on trying to save another useless building (just like the old Courthouse) and then far too hasty with development projects that are centered around this one flawed premise. Too bad, too. Corpus Christi SHOULD be bustling with tourists who spend lots of money while having a great time along the bay.
November 2, 2009
12:04 a.m.


JavelinaWildcat writes:
I like Dr Jack Shepherd's thinking from all of his above posts. You do recall Doc, we tried real hard to get Landry's to something similar to your above Memorial Plaza ide? But it got shot down by some of the very same players in front and behind the scenes that killed this Brass idea? "Don't let them steel your bayfront" was their rally cry. One of them even went so far to purpose a counter development accross the colisiuem site, but it vanished from the air once Landry's was told to take a hike despite the voters in the end voting for lease terms that would be favorable for the development.
I'm convinced Corpus is doomed to multiple failures to come unless this indeed was the straw that broke the camel's back and finally someone on city council will stand up to the behind the scenes people who are controlling other council members and city staff. When that happens, perhaps we will know the worm is maybe turning. Then again it might snow again in Corpus before that happens which meams get ready for the long haul.
November 2, 2009
7:02 a.m.


PayOffCreditCards writes:
Leaders are better informed and see what we don't. Ordinary people see to the horizon. Are you up with everything your boss is faced with. Leaders make decisions from their elevated point of view. This deal must have stunk behind closed doors. "Next." Las Brisas.
November 2, 2009
9:32 a.m.


DrZeno writes:
in response to southtexasdog:
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again?
Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out...
But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's)
yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market...
And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
Dog:
You are spot on. Building apts and a garage in that beautiful setting is not a solution to the problem.
Let's take a look at Seattle and what they have done. They have enhanced their beautiful setting with commerce that attracts people to the area.
We could do the same. But the hut must be razed and Brass sent packing.
November 2, 2009
9:32 a.m.


beachguy1982#712635 writes:
in response to Dude:
The only people in this city who want to see apartments and a parking garage on our park land are doing so in a last ditch effort to keep their Ice Raysz from failing. 
As for how real Brass is; they are only here for the free prime real estate.
An analogy:
Go to the store and fill your cart with expensive items. The Gleeful Grocer, who is having a less than stellar month follows you through the store imagining how great this checkout experience is going to be for him! Not only are you rich, but you are buying the good stuff he can't seem to move otherwise. When you get to the register, you look at him and say "here is a check for the case of beer you would have sold anyway, now you have 2 choices. Either take this out to my car and assume I'll come back when I get private funding, or the government comes through with my lone star card, or you can issue me a credit card right here and I swear I'll pay it back."
AS LONG AS WE ARE OFFERING OUR MOST PRIME REAL EASTATE FOR FREE, THE CON ARTISTS WILL COME!
MAKE IT A PARK FOREVER!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!
It is this sad and sordid mentality that prohibits growth in this city. I truly believe this is how the city council views the world.
November 2, 2009
9:48 a.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to agitator:
Who do you work for? A poor dude who lives in a box?
Oh that's right -- you're one of those who thinks he DESERVES a job because you were born and breathe air.
I don't know who you are because you are one of those cowards who hides your identity. 
I know who I am. I think I deserve a job because I work hard, I'm intelligent, and give a days work for a half days pay. I leave any place I work a better place then what it was. You go look at Richardson Auditorium now. When I got there it was a rundown disaster and now as lousy as an upgrade as it got I can only hope it is better then when I started there. 
I admire smart intelligent people who get ahead on their own ideas. Not guys like Rowling who inherited the money then buy up all the property in downtown, tearing down viable buildings that could have been new business and then sitting on the empty property so that no one else can earn a living unless they are willing to pay Rowling his tithe for the privilege. Rowling who owns the only major hotel in town and runs it so poorly Convention visitors using the ABC have nothing but complaints about it. 
I am one of those people who has paid a lot of taxes and I believe that we pay taxes for the common good. We fund public police and fire departments. We don't bid them out to a lowest bid speculator who inherited money from his family and let him operate them at his whim. We build roads so that you don't have stop at every corner and pay a toll to private owners. 
Just the same we should,'t give away public land to every idiot venture in the name of growth. Brass would have given us a whole batch more of low level poorly paid jobs that would have just sucked business away from the current downtown business's and the already suffering movie theater complexes. Of course that is assuming they would have ever built anything. Why not let Brass block the one major asset this city has, the great views of the water so that just a few can get a nice view so that Brass can make money and take it back to San Antonio. What kind of idiots think this was a good idea? If you want to bring in more people and tourism you have to use your brain and come up with stuff that accentuates what we have and does not compete with business people who have already invested their lives in local business's. That is why as long as small minded people with no vision like you buy into the growth myth at any cost Corpus Christi will remain a provincial mercury and lead laced watering hole.
November 2, 2009
10:20 a.m.


Catwomen writes:
IF u see those people that voted down to brass spit on them! Naw just kidding but seriously guys this is SAD SAD SAD. U guys really need to not run for this positition anymore as for the majoirty of time u have been in office i believe nothing has been done. Give me one good benifit to the city u have created. . . Please really do!
November 2, 2009
10:25 a.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Most of these proposals won't do much for the waterfront in terms of business.
A swim center? How will this be anything better than another Jehovah's Witness convention? It' won't bring much money or people in (swimmers and a few fans for a few meets). Plus, is there a contract that says that the Olympic Swimming team HAS be based there? Most of the swimmers are from the east or west coasts and practice at their universities. Do we really think that the cost of development (particularly, loss of the land) would be justified by the small income that it would generate?
Look, we don't need another spectator venue. The American Bank Center can hardly justify its existence. It keeps losing money.
We need something from this development that will attract local citizens who don't already come to the waterfront. We need something that will attract people from surrounding communities, or places like San Antonio, Laredo and Austin to choose Corpus Christi as a weekend getaway. A "swim center" won't do this.
A "Memorial Plaza" can work (in the spirit of "Pier 39")! You can destroy that ugly building and set up a plaza that will attract businesses and tourists to the downtown waterfront. This has been proven to work in areas that weren't known for their tourism...and it worked. Monterey, CA; Myrtle Beach, SC; Virginia Beach, VA; and other towns similar in size to Corpus have viable and attractive "Pier 39" type of waterfront attractions that have revitalized their downtowns and generated lots of tax income.
There are plenty of trendy "anchor" restaurants that would probably want to locate here (like Bubba Gump's Shrimp, Rainforest Cafe or other nice coffee shops and trendy restaurants). When it is combined with free "sign up" sidewalk or pavilion entertainment, an open-air seller's market (including fresh seafood and farm items), a walking area, and live music -- the Corpus Christi waterfront can become attractive to outsiders. It will draw people (and their money) to the area -- which should be the goal of the city anyway.
Someone in the City Council should google Pier 39 in order to get some ideas. They could also google similar-sized cities from around the US and see what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns.
*sigh
Instead, we have people on the council who actually WANT to keep that decrepit mockery of an eyesoar in use. It was ugly when it was built...and it has only gotten uglier over time. It also wastes a lot of space on what should be prime acreage along the downtown Corpus Christi waterfront.
City Council, ask yourself: What kind of people do you want to attract to the downtown? What kind of income are you trying to create? Are these hasty proposals the best way to accomplish this? Have you considered alternatives?
There are experts and those of us who think that the Memorial Coliseum is great architecture. I certainly agree with those who think that it is extremely well built. You only have to look at the hurricanes it has survived. I would also propose here that there are those people who might come to Corpus Christi to see this great architecture should the city promote the facility, instead of degrade it? Dido on the old county court house. Both of these buildings could be renovated and restored or modified for the publics use and in doing that we would be bettering this community and that will have repercussions on those visiting this community. 
Truth about all the trendy places to visit is that they are all are the same everywhere you go so why would anyone want to make a special visit to Corpus Christi to see what they can see in all those other places you have mentioned?
I have visited a lot of cities. I grew up in New York City. I've lived on the West Coast. I just came back from a few weeks in Alaska. I didn't go to those places to see and visit chain restaurants. 
I saw great new and old architecture, museums, exhibits, scenery, art, crafts and local restaurants with personality all their own.
When we moved to Corpus Christi twenty years ago, we moved here because of the open beaches, the scenery, and what had been left of the old architecture. Turned out the schools were in a lot worse shape then we had thought both physically and educationally. 
You want to make this town better, you have to do something about the CCISD (don't have the room here to even begin that narrative). You got to stop this growth at any cost attitude. Survey the existing old architecture. Highlight it, restore it. Identify and support the arts and crafts. Keep the beaches clean. Think green. Stop the Las Brisas power plant and yes curb the refineries and force them to operate cleaner.
All you have to do is visit these cities all across the country to see the right things to do.
Yes, we have to get over this fear of investing taxpayer funds to fix up old buildings and improve our city. It will come back with dividends.
I find it interesting that everyone leaves out Olympic in the swim center proposal. I agree with you that it needs to be finalized. Should the Olympics put their seal of approval on the project, why wouldn't that be a feather in the cap of Corpus Christi? Its not the quantity, it's the quality. Just one step at a time.
November 2, 2009
11:19 a.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
There are experts and those of us who think that the Memorial Coliseum is great architecture. I certainly agree with those who think that it is extremely well built. You only have to look at the hurricanes it has survived. I would also propose here that there are those people who might come to Corpus Christi to see this great architecture should the city promote the facility, instead of degrade it? Dido on the old county court house. Both of these buildings could be renovated and restored or modified for the publics use and in doing that we would be bettering this community and that will have repercussions on those visiting this community. 
Truth about all the trendy places to visit is that they are all are the same everywhere you go so why would anyone want to make a special visit to Corpus Christi to see what they can see in all those other places you have mentioned?
I have visited a lot of cities. I grew up in New York City. I've lived on the West Coast. I just came back from a few weeks in Alaska. I didn't go to those places to see and visit chain restaurants. 
I saw great new and old architecture, museums, exhibits, scenery, art, crafts and local restaurants with personality all their own.
When we moved to Corpus Christi twenty years ago, we moved here because of the open beaches, the scenery, and what had been left of the old architecture. Turned out the schools were in a lot worse shape then we had thought both physically and educationally. 
You want to make this town better, you have to do something about the CCISD (don't have the room here to even begin that narrative). You got to stop this growth at any cost attitude. Survey the existing old architecture. Highlight it, restore it. Identify and support the arts and crafts. Keep the beaches clean. Think green. Stop the Las Brisas power plant and yes curb the refineries and force them to operate cleaner.
All you have to do is visit these cities all across the country to see the right things to do.
Yes, we have to get over this fear of investing taxpayer funds to fix up old buildings and improve our city. It will come back with dividends.
I find it interesting that everyone leaves out Olympic in the swim center proposal. I agree with you that it needs to be finalized. Should the Olympics put their seal of approval on the project, why wouldn't that be a feather in the cap of Corpus Christi? Its not the quantity, it's the quality. Just one step at a time.
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
November 2, 2009
2:50 p.m.


bluegirlscout writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
Exactly! I'll say it again. People come to Corpus Christi because of the beaches. Our bayfront is second to none and should be our crown jewel. It should not be parking garages and apartments or swimming pools. Those developments have their merits but could be done anywhere in downtown or on the south side. If public money is to be spent, it should be on projects that benefit the whole public not just developers and those wealthy enough to afford high-end apartments on OUR beach. Raze the Hut, make it a beautiful greenspace with pathways and memorial statues, displays about area wildlife and history. Put the shops and restaurants across the street. Watch the revitalization begin! AND it won't leave taxpayers holding the bag for short-sighted business ventures that don't pan out.
November 2, 2009
3:24 p.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
I bow to your expertise with respect to the Olympic Training Facility. I have not done the research although I find the idea appealing and uplifting. Assuming you are correct I return to my original suggestion. 
I am disappointed that you do not find the architecture appealing but hey the pyramids were stripped of their exterior by scavengers, the sphinx had its nose shot off and in my home city of Brooklyn New York brownstones were abandoned and vandalized as old and outdated, to the point where many were demolished. Loft living came about because empty warehouses some with extraordinary architecture were thought to be ugly and useless for business purposes and many manufacturers and small business's moved out of downtown Manhattan leaving artists the vacant spaces at very inexpensive prices. Today a brownstone I paid thirty thousand for in the 1980's is selling for over a million dollars even in this real estate market and those loft spaces that landlords couldn't give away are also in the millions of dollars. 
What is wrong with downtown Corpus Christi is that speculators, many of them local bought property downtown cheap and now want winfall profits. People like Rowling tore down buildings that pioneers could have rehabilitated and he left vacant lots. 
The best thing the city can do is turn the old county courthouse into low income artist housing. We need to build and create an environment to which creative people, artists, crafts people, etc will be attracted and can afford to move. The city needs to take the first steps to help supply the spaces for displaying art and performance etc. 
I would still suggest that we clean up the Coliseum so that it's appearance is restored. Lock it up tight and securely to prevent further vandalism. I would like the community to think of all the ways they could reuse the building for public events, maybe an exhibition hall, small performance spaces, arts and crafts, native culture, possibly a military museum etc. Activities that would not have to be in conflict with the ABC. I would continue on with the master plan that the city has already developed and leave the area around the coliseum open for the public and public events. Fix up the parks and parking. Then let the private community invest in the private land further back from the water and the Coliseum. They could build knowing that they will have the views and that the open space will remain open. Finally that does not mean that the waterfront could not be developed with marinas and smaller one story buildings for selling crafts or food if the community so desires in a way that is picturesque and consistent with the past history of the city.
November 2, 2009
4:40 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
I bow to your expertise with respect to the Olympic Training Facility. I have not done the research although I find the idea appealing and uplifting. Assuming you are correct I return to my original suggestion. 
I am disappointed that you do not find the architecture appealing but hey the pyramids were stripped of their exterior by scavengers, the sphinx had its nose shot off and in my home city of Brooklyn New York brownstones were abandoned and vandalized as old and outdated, to the point where many were demolished. Loft living came about because empty warehouses some with extraordinary architecture were thought to be ugly and useless for business purposes and many manufacturers and small business's moved out of downtown Manhattan leaving artists the vacant spaces at very inexpensive prices. Today a brownstone I paid thirty thousand for in the 1980's is selling for over a million dollars even in this real estate market and those loft spaces that landlords couldn't give away are also in the millions of dollars. 
What is wrong with downtown Corpus Christi is that speculators, many of them local bought property downtown cheap and now want winfall profits. People like Rowling tore down buildings that pioneers could have rehabilitated and he left vacant lots. 
The best thing the city can do is turn the old county courthouse into low income artist housing. We need to build and create an environment to which creative people, artists, crafts people, etc will be attracted and can afford to move. The city needs to take the first steps to help supply the spaces for displaying art and performance etc. 
I would still suggest that we clean up the Coliseum so that it's appearance is restored. Lock it up tight and securely to prevent further vandalism. I would like the community to think of all the ways they could reuse the building for public events, maybe an exhibition hall, small performance spaces, arts and crafts, native culture, possibly a military museum etc. Activities that would not have to be in conflict with the ABC. I would continue on with the master plan that the city has already developed and leave the area around the coliseum open for the public and public events. Fix up the parks and parking. Then let the private community invest in the private land further back from the water and the Coliseum. They could build knowing that they will have the views and that the open space will remain open. Finally that does not mean that the waterfront could not be developed with marinas and smaller one story buildings for selling crafts or food if the community so desires in a way that is picturesque and consistent with the past history of the city.
Are you comparing the Memorial Coliseum with the Great Pyramids of Giza? Yikes!
I am not saying that the building is beyond use. I am simply saying that the property is PRIME waterfront property. If you limit the redevelopment of the waterfront to including this eyesoar of a building as an anchor to development, you have effectively limited the amount of development that can take place there. Perhaps, instead of simply trying to decide whether the building can be viable, the City Council should decide whether or not the property could be better developed WITHOUT the building.
Unfortunately, some people can't see the forest because all of the trees are blocking their view.
Yet, I am quite certain that another spectator arena is just as unneeded in the downtown waterfront area as another mall would be unneeded just off of SPID. While I may not be an expert on the building itself, I do understand attraction and usability quite well. A swimming center would attract only limited amounts of visitors and an ice arena ALREADY exists (where the IceRays currently play) and would not attract anyone new.
The downtown waterfront is in desperate need of visitors...and visitors who will spend money (both at the attractions themselves and other downtown establishments). The development project should produce sustained visitors year round. An ice arena, swimming practice facility and apartments just won't sustain a number of visitors to the area. However, if the Memorial Coliseum were taken out of the picture, developers could propose some options that might accomplish this goal.
There is just so much potential for this property! Unfortunately, it is being thwarted by members of the City Council who are unwilling or unable to think outside of a box that is shaped like an old, decrepit coliseum.
November 2, 2009
5:25 p.m.


hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Are you comparing the Memorial Coliseum with the Great Pyramids of Giza? Yikes!
I am not saying that the building is beyond use. I am simply saying that the property is PRIME waterfront property. If you limit the redevelopment of the waterfront to including this eyesoar of a building as an anchor to development, you have effectively limited the amount of development that can take place there. Perhaps, instead of simply trying to decide whether the building can be viable, the City Council should decide whether or not the property could be better developed WITHOUT the building.
Unfortunately, some people can't see the forest because all of the trees are blocking their view.
Yet, I am quite certain that another spectator arena is just as unneeded in the downtown waterfront area as another mall would be unneeded just off of SPID. While I may not be an expert on the building itself, I do understand attraction and usability quite well. A swimming center would attract only limited amounts of visitors and an ice arena ALREADY exists (where the IceRays currently play) and would not attract anyone new.
The downtown waterfront is in desperate need of visitors...and visitors who will spend money (both at the attractions themselves and other downtown establishments). The development project should produce sustained visitors year round. An ice arena, swimming practice facility and apartments just won't sustain a number of visitors to the area. However, if the Memorial Coliseum were taken out of the picture, developers could propose some options that might accomplish this goal.
There is just so much potential for this property! Unfortunately, it is being thwarted by members of the City Council who are unwilling or unable to think outside of a box that is shaped like an old, decrepit coliseum.
I'm just trying to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on the icerays. You keep talking about development as if there was some kind of magic development that will somehow appear because you tear down the building? The community has already objecting to Rowlings Carnival and the whole ferris wheel fiasco. All of which could easily fit on the ABC side of downtown accept that Rowling owns most of that and is doing nothing with it. Then there was Brass with a conglomeration of ugly buildings and a parking garage blocking the views right on top of the water. I really don't want to see more skyscrapers or massive private development that blocks the publics access and I think most everyone else agrees with that so although it may be prime, just what exactly do you believe it is prime for if not the people who live here? Why not just leave the Coliseum alone and the land vacant accept for the grass and trees and maybe a playground or two? If you utilize the Coliseum for performance, art and crafts, the tourists will come. The problem is to make what's left of downtown work, not overbuild it with more competing business's that will just divide what little tourist money there is. I have lived in neighborhoods that others thought were desolate. We invested our money and sweat and little by little, others came and invested their money. I say again that the problem is not the Coliseum but the speculators that are holding back the downtown by sitting on their property and doing nothing. The city and county are not helping by turning the old County Courthouse and the Coliseum into eyesores. Sometimes when all else fails it takes money to make money and that includes City and County Governments. You have all that private land held in private hands downtown. If the land is so darn prime why aren't these smart a** speculators building on it and creating business's? Even before this downturn in the economy that land was still sitting empty and now with no money around you want to start destroying the Coliseum so that more speculators can come looking for handouts from the taxpayers? The value just isn't there. It is make believe, smoke and mirrors and that is something I know a whole lot about.
November 2, 2009
6:31 p.m.


DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
I'm just trying to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on the icerays. You keep talking about development as if there was some kind of magic development that will somehow appear because you tear down the building? The community has already objecting to Rowlings Carnival and the whole ferris wheel fiasco. All of which could easily fit on the ABC side of downtown accept that Rowling owns most of that and is doing nothing with it. Then there was Brass with a conglomeration of ugly buildings and a parking garage blocking the views right on top of the water. I really don't want to see more skyscrapers or massive private development that blocks the publics access and I think most everyone else agrees with that so although it may be prime, just what exactly do you believe it is prime for if not the people who live here? Why not just leave the Coliseum alone and the land vacant accept for the grass and trees and maybe a playground or two? If you utilize the Coliseum for performance, art and crafts, the tourists will come. The problem is to make what's left of downtown work, not overbuild it with more competing business's that will just divide what little tourist money there is. I have lived in neighborhoods that others thought were desolate. We invested our money and sweat and little by little, others came and invested their money. I say again that the problem is not the Coliseum but the speculators that are holding back the downtown by sitting on their property and doing nothing. The city and county are not helping by turning the old County Courthouse and the Coliseum into eyesores. Sometimes when all else fails it takes money to make money and that includes City and County Governments. You have all that private land held in private hands downtown. If the land is so darn prime why aren't these smart a** speculators building on it and creating business's? Even before this downturn in the economy that land was still sitting empty and now with no money around you want to start destroying the Coliseum so that more speculators can come looking for handouts from the taxpayers? The value just isn't there. It is make believe, smoke and mirrors and that is something I know a whole lot about.
I am not talking about "magic" development.
Rather, the development of this property is limited simply because the City Council will not consider developments that do not include this very huge and ugly building.
And, yes, this building sits right in the middle of some of the most valuable property along the waterfront! The reason that this has taken so long is because the city council is only considering plans that include the building itself. Since it is perpendicularly spread right across the property from street to street, this is a huge limit to potential development (and developers).
If I were responsible for this, I would have torn down that building a long time ago. At least, the potential for possible development alternatives would actually increase.
If we want people to come to the waterfront, then they have to have a reason to come. We can complain all we want about how their money will be divided up. However, not many people will come to a swim center, apartments or just another shopping center.
However, people can be drawn to the downtown waterfront from the other side of city, the surrounding towns and the rest of the state if they can visit something that is different than what they can visit in San Antonio or Galveston. Corpus Christi has a beautiful waterfront. A "Pier 39" type of development would cause people to have a reason to enjoy that beauty.
When I was married, my family flew in from all over the country. They spent time in Corpus Christi. They did the typical Lexington and Aquarium time. They were amazed at the beauty of the waterfront. However, I heard several of them say, "Too bad there just isn't much to do around here." I truly believe that something like Pier 39 would actually become a central draw for the city.
November 2, 2009
6:49 p.m.


CarpeDiem writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
I am not talking about "magic" development.
Rather, the development of this property is limited simply because the City Council will not consider developments that do not include this very huge and ugly building.
And, yes, this building sits right in the middle of some of the most valuable property along the waterfront! The reason that this has taken so long is because the city council is only considering plans that include the building itself. Since it is perpendicularly spread right across the property from street to street, this is a huge limit to potential development (and developers).
If I were responsible for this, I would have torn down that building a long time ago. At least, the potential for possible development alternatives would actually increase.
If we want people to come to the waterfront, then they have to have a reason to come. We can complain all we want about how their money will be divided up. However, not many people will come to a swim center, apartments or just another shopping center.
However, people can be drawn to the downtown waterfront from the other side of city, the surrounding towns and the rest of the state if they can visit something that is different than what they can visit in San Antonio or Galveston. Corpus Christi has a beautiful waterfront. A "Pier 39" type of development would cause people to have a reason to enjoy that beauty.
When I was married, my family flew in from all over the country. They spent time in Corpus Christi. They did the typical Lexington and Aquarium time. They were amazed at the beauty of the waterfront. However, I heard several of them say, "Too bad there just isn't much to do around here." I truly believe that something like Pier 39 would actually become a central draw for the city.
In addition to Pier 39, there are many other examples of what can be done. There is Bayside in Miami, Jacksonville Landing, Jekyll Island in Georgia, Inner Harbor in Baltimore, Pier 70 and Penn's Landing in Philly, South Street Seaport in NYC and Anthony's Pier in Boston.
It can be done, it takes imagination and gumption, two items that seem to be in short supply.